Random ghosts in masking
I keep getting these very annoying random ghosts while creating masks.
No sooner have I finished creating a mask, usually using the Masking brush sometimes also using the Refine, but also with Super Select AI, I finish my processing. I then export in TIF format.
Once I save the photo, I discover random masking covering various areas of the photos. I go back and correct the masks, save once more .......... and I get more different random masks.
To be honest, since I bought PhotoRaw 2023 before it was even out, I have been disappointed.
The main disappointment is that the masking tools are just not worthy of the "Rarah" that announced the release of PhotoRaw 2023.
I have wasted many hours correcting masking errors, only to see more errors appear!
How can this be so inefficient?
Previously I was using Corel Aftershot and Paintshop Pro. While not as sophisticated as ON!, at least those programs were stable!
I really feel I have been had, as in over sold an immature software.
Nicolas
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Problems with masking are usually caused by the GPU. Make sure your drivers are up to date and your GPU meets required specs.
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Yes to both your points. My system was reset as new, fresh install, less than 2 months ago.
With the latest drivers and software for all applications.
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7820HQ CPU @ 2.90GHz 2.90 GHz
256 GB SSD drive
Nvidia Quadro M1200 with 4GB RAM dedicated and 32 GB RAM (system)
All this complies with the system requirements as given by ON1.
Nicolas
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My system was reset as new, fresh install, less than 2 months ago.
And something may have become corrupt since then. You should still start by using the Delete Settings function and if that doesn't fix the problem try the Reset option.
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I do not understand what you are referring to with your suggestion to Delete Settings or Reset option.
Are you talking of wiping my laptop clean, a fresh reinstall of Windows 10 Pro?
Nicolas
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I'm sorry, I forgot the link to the Knowledge Base article that explains it.
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I'm experiencing the same random masks that look like spilled liquid when I first view a DNG file (even before edit.) I'm running the most recent release (17.0.2.3102) on a Mac platform. I've found the easiest way to get rid of the mask is to add an adjustment layer (type of adjustment is irrelevant), open the mask and edit the weirdness out. Then just delete the adjustment layer. If you want to check before you delete, turn the layer off and you'll see the ghost mask is gone. There is no need to save the file. Edit as desired. For me, the random mask never returns on that image.
[Edit] Faster - If this is the first time you've opened the file for Edit, just open the Local Adjustments and delete the random mask that On1 created.
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Thank you Charles for your suggestion.
I tried this but sadly it did not resolve the problem with random masks.
I already reset the the settings, as suggested by Brian lawson, likewise without success.
Please keep in mind that this was a fresh install, on a computer that had been completely reformatted 1 week prior to ON1 being installed. In fact the laptop was bought specifically to operate ON1.
I am so disappointed by the unworkable PhotoRaw 2023 that I have gone back to using Silkypix and Corel Paintshop Pro (4 years old) ..........
Regards,
Nicolas
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A screen shot or video capture showing the problem might be helpful.
Nicolas, you said, "reset the settings". You can Delete Settings or you can Reset ON1 Photo RAW. They do 2 different things. Have you tried both? Delete Settings does just that. It deletes you Preferences settings and the various program states returning them to their defaults. Resetting the program wipes out all your user data which returns the program to the same state as when it was first installed. You will not loose your edits as long you are using the .on1 sidecars. The program will rebuild all your user data from there after the reset.
It might also be helpful to see one of the problem files. I'd like to see the original RAW file with its edits so I'll also need the .on1 sidecar file and the exported TIFF that shows the bad masking. I'd like to see them before you fix the masks.
Your video card is 6 years old now having been released in 2017. While it does meet the minimum specs, with only 4GB of memory it may not be strong enough to keep up with Photo RAW's demands.
Have you talked with Tech Support yet?
How to submit a problem to ON1 Tech Support - A Step-by-step Guide
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I did Delete Settings as suggested.
The attached photo has no claims to artistic merits, it is purely intended to show these random masks appearing during processing. It is cropped to show the problem area.
The model is standing in front of an off-white wall with a light brown floor. I simply wanted to change the wall to this red stone appearance, and change the floor to a concrete look.
Because the Super Select or Mask AI do a lousy job of recognizing the tonal differences between the floor and the model's leg, I had to clean up the masks manually. That is fine.
Towards the end as I am preparing to save the whole file, suddenly I get these random masks, which you can clearly see here. These cannot be undone.
Effectively this destroys my processing .... and forces me to start over again ... for a repeat performance
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This is another even simpler example of random masking appearing during processing/saving a file.
The original JPG:
The background was much too bright, while the model was underexposed.
I chose to process the same image 2 ways. Normal processing for the model (brighten, more contrast) and then lower the gamma to darken the foliage for the background.
I then simple superimpose the two images. All I needed to do was create a mask on the 2nd (background foliage) image, on the window areas, to allow the background to appear (through the windows).
But the random masking, which appears as black, destroys the editing. I stopped processing at that point.
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I guess AI got the black rounded aerator on the top of the window, then, as an AI, what can I do for best results ? Reply this black circle on some parts of the image ?
Even if many amazing improvements have been done (not only in ON1), I still prefer my own brain; just for photos, results of AI are very various and sometimes ridiculous (Luminar I don't use it, Affinity, Pixelmator and some more just for test / read the user's comments!).
AI is just a new born process, maybe wait 2030 for more accuracy in his predictions. (As I said , this is not a ON1 problem), human brain remains at this time more efficient !).
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I would still like to see one of the photos with the bad, uncorrected mask along with an explanation of how it was created. You'll need to zip the RAW file together with its .on1 sidecar and post that to a file sharing service like Dropbox or WeTransfer. Both are free services although you will have to create an account before you can upload anything. Once it has been uploaded post the download link here.
In you lower photo with the black spots in the lower left, did you do any manual masking there? Those spots look to me as though they could have been painted manually with a brush that had it's Feather set to 0 which would create hard edged, perfectly round circles when the brush was clicked in one spot (the middle black spot) while there was some brush movement on the other 2.
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I am not sure I understand what you are requesting.
By the way the first example, cropped to show the model's feet, was just as problematic.
1) In that case the mask around the model's feet, to create a concrete floor, suddenly expanded to include her feet. The problem with this situation is that I cannot undo these random masks. Which destroys the work I am doing.
2) In the 2nd photo I had to manually create a mask to reveal the window. Super Select or Mask AI basically could not select only the window, they selected the full image (including window frame) except for the model's outline.
I tried a slightly different approach on a different photo in this series. I manually selected the frame of the window plus the model. It went well. I then clicked REFINE to improve the edges around the model's face... and this happened:
This new "selection" basically destroys the previous mask, and cannot be undone.
I was only trying to refine the edges around the face, but this new selection popped up.
Nicolas
Note: I could upload the RAW and associated files to MEGA.NZ, cloud storage, but I will not post the link here in the forum.0 -
Note: before I started using REFINE the model (body and head) was correctly masked, requiring minor improvements around the face. The central horizontal bar in the window was also correctly masked.
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I don't have a solution to this problem, but I think you could be more aggressive with saving snapshots as you go. If you can see that the mask is correct, then save it in a snapshot in case you need to go back to it later.
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What I am requesting is a copy of your edited RAW file. That means both the RAW image file and the .on1 sidecar file which contains the edits. I want to see it at the point where the unexpected masking happens please.
Zip the two files together then upload the zip file to Dropbox or WeTransfer. Once it is uploaded you'll be given a download link for it. Post that link here.
I'd also like a step-by-step on how you created the mask so I can attempt to duplicate the problem.
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One of your problems is that the Feather setting for your brushes is set to 1! That means a 1 pixel feather which is inconsequential with a 50px brush. You're creating those hard edges that are not allowing the mask to blend smoothly. It's very rare you want to use a hard edge on a mask. Try setting that to 100 and see what difference that makes.
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If your object is to separate the model from the rest of the photo I would use the Original Quick Mask tool. You rough sketch what you want kept and what you want masked then the program will create the mask for you. You get to define the areas by painting on them rather than letting an AI try to decide what to keep and what to mask. Your painting doesn't have to be the full mask, just draw along the edges the click the Apply button and refine as needed with the same too. Clicking Done creates the mask which can then be modified with the other Refine tools if needed.
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Rick Samartino: What do you mean by "more aggressive with saving snapshots". One of the things I mentioned and disliked is that PhotoRaw does not have a "Save" button. Other than briefly switching to another image and forcing saving, I cannot understand your suggestion.
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Go to the snapshots panel And click the save button
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Brian Lawson; I just tried your technique using Original Quick Mask. This creates a decent mask which requires refining for a final result. I set the Feather to 50, but I want to point out that the edges this produces are much too rough for my liking.
When I went to refine the mask, once more I get random masks appearing .......
This is a very simple test: one mask created from the blank wall behind a standing model. Things do not get any simpler than this!!!
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Another issue appeared:
I decided to use the Original Quick Mask to create a rough mask. I then Copy the mask.
I create an adjustment layer, where I Paste the mask .....
only to see random masking appearing in the Adjustment layer, when there is none in the original image.
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I’ve asked more than once for you to provide your image file for me to take a look at. I can’t do anymore without seeing that.
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I create an adjustment layer, where I Paste the mask .....
only to see random masking appearing in the Adjustment layer, when there is none in the original image.
If you could post a video screen capture showing us this happening it might be helpful too.
I really want to see your image though. I want to try to reproduce the problem for myself.
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