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v2023 very laggy

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50 comments

  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Item 4 in this tips list is to remove your photo folders from the path of your antivirus since it may interfere with Photo raw accessing your photos. I don't think the other tips there will be of help for you.

    https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/10809695637645/comments/10809746039053

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  • Ray Miles

    Since I am on a Mac I don't use an antivirus programme. I will check other tips anyway.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    How are your external disks connected to your M1? In particular, how is the Scratch drive connected? You want it to have a direct connection, not through a hub or daisy chained to other drives, and it should be a Thunderbolt connection for speed.

    I'm also on an M1 and I have no problems with the program's performance.

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    Ray, have you got several external applications in your Send To list? I was having the same issue an when I noticed that clicking on File in menu bar took time as well as right click when other menu items were fast I wondered if the number of external applications was the cause.

    I renamed all the external applications I had in the list and restarted PhotoRAW, with only Photoshop and Lightroom in the list things are much faster.

    I will bug report this and raise the issue of having to rename applications to remove them from the lists as being a paint and they need an easier way,

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    David, there is actually a way to remove those if you're reasonably computer literate. There is an ini file...

     C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Roaming\ON1\ON1 Layers 2020\On1Layers2020.ini ***

    *** change 2020 to whatever you're using

    ... that contains those entries. You can modify the file and remove unwanted entries, but it's not formatted and hard to read to find the exact item.

    Goes without saying that you need to back up that file before you play with it.

     

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    Rick, can't see anything like that on Mac. Equivalent On1Layers2023 folder is just caches. I have looked in the past and never got anywhere with finding the relevant configuration file.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Maybe Brian will know where it is, I can't comment on Mac.

    The file has to be there somewhere though. If you have a way to search through text files, you can just search for items that are in your Send To list.

    This is what's in my ini file.

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    I have put in a suggestion that a delete option is added to PhotoRAW. Looking at the XML data I think that I will stick with renaming and rerenaming as a safer way to remove entries!

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  • Ray Miles

    I thought I had already replied on this.

    Yes Brian my SSDs are both "properly" connected.

    I did however notice that for some reason my PBC had been moved back to my internal drive. I suspect I must have opened PR at some point without the external drive connected. Since I couldn't work out how to merge the two PBCs, I am now creating it afresh on my Scratch drive. It's been 24 hours on and off with the programme open and still adding files like nobody's business. The lagginess might be down to all that, so I can't really make a further assessment until that's completed. 

    I am running today's update so I will have to see if that improves matters.

    Also, David, I do have 14 apps linked via Send To..., so that's worth looking into as well. Thanks for the tip.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Ray,

    Telling me they are "properly" connected does not answer the question, "How are they connected?" I cannot help if my questions are not answered.

    No, there is no way to merge the 2 PBC folders and the program does not actually "move" it when you tell it to go to a new drive. It will copy the PBC from the original drive to the new drive but it will leave the original copy in place.

    Yes, copying the folder to a different drive will impact performance for however long it takes to do the copy. That shouldn't be that long though, even if it is a large folder. How long does it take to copy 90GB?

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    Ray, I was getting the lag on the beta and have done on the production version. Reducing number of Send To entries does seem to speed things up.

    Also I have just tested with and without second monitor activated in dual mode, does seem to slow down when second monitor is in use, even after waiting for image on second monitor to complete loading.

    Running on M1 iMac with second monitor connected via Display port on a Thunderbolt hub.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I haven't been able to find the external editors list on the Mac. I'll keep looking, it has to be somewhere.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    There are free editors for those types of files that make it much easier than editing the raw text. And yes, simply renaming the file or moving it elsewhere will remove the list but you'll also loose whatever other settings are in there. Some may be Preferences settings while the majority are program state settings, column widths, etc.

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    I meant renaming the external editor files, restarting PhotoRAW so links removed, and then putting application names back where they were. That way PhotoRAW handles the change to the preferences file wherever it might be lurking. Done this several times today during my investigations, so far no side effects.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Have you found which file holds the Send To… list?

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    Not found file, hence reverting to just changing the names of the actual applications called as external editors.

    I have just done another test and added a new external editor. When I was back in PhotoRAW and did another right-click the new external editor was in the list. I renamed the external editor application and right-clicked again. The external editor no longer appeared in the list of external editors.

    So it looks as though each time one right-clicks on image or opens File Menu item PhotoRAW checks its current list of external editors to see if they still exist and deletes them if not.

    I had assumed that PhotoRAW would build the list when it was opened and one would need to reload PhotoRAW to get rid of references to external editors that no longer exist.

    I wonder if it is this checking and updating each time that is behind the lags that I saw with several external editors defined?

    Running on an M1 iMac with half empty internal SSD holding programs and photos & caches on external SSDs connected directly to iMac, so shouldn't be anything that interferes with checking the applications.

    Bug report submitted saying I had a delay that I shortened by reducing the number of external editors. Been through their usual first response of deleting settings and repeated the problem immediately after this. No response to my followup giving this information.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    So it looks as though each time one right-clicks on image or opens File Menu item PhotoRAW checks its current list of external editors to see if they still exist and deletes them if not. That's good to know. I thought it was built at startup too. That makes things easier.

    I wonder if it is this checking and updating each time that is behind the lags that I saw with several external editors defined? That's possible let us know when support gets back to you.

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  • Ray Miles

    My photos are on a 1TB SSB connected via one of the M1's thunderbolt ports. It has just over 100GB free space.

    The other thunderbolt port is connected to the Scratch SSD. The drive is 127GB and the PBC is currently only about 10GB, whilst the entire drive is said to have about 100GB free, so not sure where the other 17 are! This drive is slower. Maybe too slow?

    I seem to recall my PBC had got to about 90GB, so PR2023 is going to have to run through the night again. 

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Thanks, that's more helpful. Does the enclosure for your Scratch drive also have a Thunderbolt connection or is it a USB port which would limit the bandwidth and might slow things down a bit.

    There must be some invisible files on your drive taking up space or it could be how it was originally formatted. You can check for invisible files in the Finder by pressing Command-Shift-Period. There are some invisible folders used by the OS for Spotlight and for tracking changes to the drive's file system for recovery purposes as well as temporary space. Those are normal. I would be reluctant to mess with anything you find without knowing exactly what it is. I know there have been times when I've accidentally pressing the period key for the first character of a new file or folder and made it invisible. Things like that are of course safe to remove.

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  • Ray Miles

    Good morning Brian. Both my external SSDs have either thunderbolt or USB-C (?) ports.

    The Samsung T7 is v fast: approx 720/670 according to the Blackmagic. That's where I keep my photos and sidecars.

    The cheap little Sadata drive I use for the Scratch is slow. Writes start off at around 300 but then drop to around 60 during the course of the test, but maybe that's because the PBC is still updating. Read is OK at about 350.

    I have invisible files permanently revealed and they are not large. But I think the Sadata updates its folder sizes in a laggy way.

    As David reported, the lagginess is when I click on the File menu (or right click an image). I don't have a second monitor. So I too suspect it might relate to the number of Send To links (I have 14 at present). I too am happy to get rid of most of them, since I now use Topaz as Layers anyway.

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  • Ray Miles

    Just to add: I ran the test again on the Adata with PR closed and there was no difference. I don't recall this gradual slowdown when writing when I start testing it a while back, so it could be wear and tear.

    I am in the process of deleting or renaming apps. I will get rid of them all and report back.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    FWIW, I have my Scratch space on a fast drive and my photos on a slower drive connected through a USB port on a hub. My thinking is that it may take a second or two longer to load the photo but after that the pictures drive is no longer being used during editing while the Scratch drive does come into play so I want it on the faster drive.

    My Send To… list is also much smaller so that could be a factor for you too. Let us know if that makes a difference.

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  • Ray Miles

    I am still seeing some lagginess but, since it is so intermittent anyway, I need to try it out further. For some bizarre reason, Quicktime Player is on my Send To list: I don't remember adding it. Since it's part of the OS, it cannot be renamed or trashed, so I cannot remove it from the list using the workaround.

    I guess On1 really need to add a remove option for that list.

    BTW I have some thumb drives somewhere. One of them once held a complete OS backup so it must be quite large. It would need to be connected via one of the USB ports but I might try it as an alternative Scratch. Before that I still need to wait for the PBC to fill.

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I noticed QuickTime Player in my Send To list as well. I didn't add it either. I suspect the company puts it there so .mov files can be played by double-clicking them.

    Once your PCB has been rebuilt I expect the lagginess will go away or at least be much less annoying.

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  • Ray Miles

    Fingers crossed. I have another SSD I have used for plugging in to my TV, so will swap it for the current Scratch drive, since BlackMagic indicates well over 300 for both write and read, without any drop-off. I am assuming I can just rename it and transfer my current PBC and that it will pick up where it left of once I restart PR2023.

    BTW, PR2023 has crashed twice in the past couple of hours while idle! I forwarded the crash reports and just hope this will not occur with the newer set-up.

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  • Ray Miles

    Because of the crashes, I reset on re-opening. MY PBC has now reverted to my internal drive. Not sure how to resolve that issue now I want to get it into the new drive. I have copied the current 40GB PBC to my desktop and then need to reformat the two drives etc. Can I just "move" the PBC on my internal, then delete and replace it with 40GB-worth?

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Reseting the program requires rebuilding the Catalogs and hence the PBC from scratch. It also rebuilds the internal database at the same time.

    After I use the Reset function I go through and make all my Preferences settings changes including pointing the PBC and Scratch spaces to my drive used for them. I immediately Quit the program and relaunch it so those changes are in effect. Now I rebuild my Catalogs and the PBC goes where it belongs.

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  • Ray Miles

    I did what I outlined above, so the PBC is not starting afresh, even though I did a reset. So you are saying each time one resets the PBC has to be generated anew?

    Anyway, I guess I now need to wait a bit longer for the PBC recharging to stop or slow down. And then look at the nannies issue again. Meanwhile, Cody in Support has responded with a couple of other suggestions relating to permissions etc.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    That is correct. Using the Reset function returns the program to the same state as when it was first installed. ALL user data is trashed with the exception of your .on1 & .xmp files. Those are what get used to rebuild everything. Have you read the Knowledge Base article about it and what it does?

    Delete Settings File

     

    'Reset ON1 PHOTO RAW 2020'


    *Proceed with caution when using the 'Reset ON1 PHOTO RAW 2020'

    This option is used as a last resort for unresolvable issues or corrupt databases, and the process will delete and nuke all albums, catalogs & caches.
    After Resetting ON1 PHOTO RAW 2020, any album or catalog would need to be recreated.

    There is not a way to currently back up any albums or catalogs. You will need to recreate albums and catalogs after using this option. (This is no longer true as the Backup/Restore feature has been added. However, if you back up a corrupt database then use that backup to restore from you'll just put the corruption back into place. I DO NOT recommend making a backup to restore from prior to using the Reset feature.)

    'Resetting ON1 PHOTO RAW 2020' should not harm your images that have edits.
    Edits are also stored in the .on1 sidecar files (besides the catalog caches & databases)

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  • Ray Miles

    I used the wrong term. I have not reset, just deleted settings, which does NOT affect the PBC. I will take another look at the manual, just to be clear in my poor old brain.

    PBC still updating like crazy, so don't want to come up with a verdict on lagginess until that's done. I shall also be interest in hearing what Support tell David, who is having the same issue.

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