Problems with sky swap + retouch
Hi
I have a RAW image of a church tower with a clear blue sky behind it - and with a tree branch in the sky (small but significant).
I want to swap the sky and delete/retouch the branch.
I have tried swap then delete, and delete then swap. I am struggling to achieve both.
(I intend to then convert it to B&W).
Workflow suggestions please.
Thanks
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Just tried it and it looks like you need to work on the branch first. If i swap the sky first, I get a hole when I delete the subject.
Just as an exercise, I wanted to change the sky and remove this bird.
Changing the sky first, gives me this...
But removing the bird first works as expected...
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How did you do the retouching? I think that the way the Healing Brush is implemented any of its changes do not get incorporated into any AI masking but the earlier methods of retouching such as Perfect Eraser do.
If I delete a small plane with Perfect Eraser and then do a sky replacement then the retouching is taken into account, but if I do the same thing with Healing Brush then there is a plane hole in the sky.
I have raised the need to be able to regenerate AI masks to take retouching into account, including Healing Brush, with On1.
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I think that the way the Healing Brush is implemented any of its changes do not get incorporated into any AI masking but the earlier methods of retouching such as Perfect Eraser do.
None of the retouching edits should make any difference to the AI masking as the masks are created from the RAW data before it has even been demosaiced. Any retouching comes after that. That doesn't explain why one tool is working while the other is not though. I think that is more related to how each of the 2 tools work.
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Yes, I used Perfect eraser. You need to remember that the healing brush and clone tool are virtual. While you may SEE the effect, it's not actually applied to anything. That seems to be interfering with other features like Sky AI.
You're welcome to contact ON1 support and ask them about it if you want to or you can just work with it as it is. For example, do your retouching first, then bake it in. Once baked, the retouching won't affect anything after that.
The easiest way to bake anything in is to simply duplicate the layer, then merge the two back together. Any work you did before that will be baked in and no longer editable, so be careful with it.
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I am wondering if something has changed in the last update. I am sure that I was seeing none of the retouching tools being taken into account because AI mask creation was done right at beginning of processing. I found that it was possible to force a recreation of AI masks by doing a content aware crop to increase size of image after doing retouching, and then recropping back to original size. Didn't work for healing brush but did for all the others.
I was testing with the same image as I tested before and in the tests just now I didn't need to make use of my kludge work around when I used Perfect Eraser.0 -
I have just done some more tests and it looks as though Sky masks do take Perfect Eraser retouching into account now which I am sure they didn't before.
I did a sky swap, erased a lamp and got the hole. I then created a new mask inside Sky Swap via Mask AI, selecting Sky and Paint In. The new mask filled in the hole.
On the other hand erasing people on a street using Perfect Eraser and then selecting man-made ground AI mask still had people sized holes in the mask. My method of forcing a re-analysis of AI masking via content aware crop works on this
So, assuming Andrew is running 2023.1.1 then the workflow he is looking for is to erase the branch using Perfect Eraser first and then perform sky swap. My tests and Rick's show that this method should work. But it looks as though there is currently no way to force a re-analysis of AI masking that takes Healing Brush changes into account.
Perhaps the fact that AI sky masks do seem to get regenerated automatically to take Pefect Eraser into account may indicate that On1 are working towards getting all the retouching tools and the AI masking to work together.
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Thank you for all your replles.
It would appear that my problem was caused by using the the Retouch Brush or the Healing Brush. Should have tried the Perfect Eraser!
(However, if I had stood about a foot to the left to take the image, I wouldn't have had the problem in the first place!!)Another step on the Learning Curve of ON1 RAW.
Again - thank you
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Andrew, not really your problem since it is more a limitation with how elements of PhotoRAW work together, Perfect Eraser seems to be the current workaround until On1 find a way to integrate the AI masks with the non-destructive Healing Brush so that all retouching can be included in AI masks, even if this means a manual re-analysis of the image to update basic AI masks after retouching.
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