AI Masking not working in2023.5
Answered
I've updated to 2023.5 and the AI masking has stopped working. It just selects the whole image or nothing. It was working fine before the update.
Any ideas before I submit a ticket?
I've tried deleting settings
Thanks
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Nope, if you've already deleted settings, the next step is tech support.
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Jeremy, are you seeing this on all photos? I went back and worked on some old stuff and was surprised that on certain pictures AI just plane didn't work, selected all or nothing. Sky selection still worked if you were in the sky replace tab. Most other pictures everything works, rebooting and going back to that picture made no difference, very strange.
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Having exactly the same issue K Neff. All-or-nothing masking with Super Select AI.
Have rebooted, deleted the photo's settings, and the problem persists.
Sony ARW's taken in October, work fine. Those taken in November do not.
Drone DNGs taken in January work fine. Those taken last week do not.
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Would you care to make one of the problem files available for me to download and take a look at? Post just the RAW file to a sharing service like Dropbox or WeTransfer then post the download link here.
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Here is one from earlier this week:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13k_DIOYZy0l9c4enWrKLl9cg941zq9XU/view?usp=drive_link
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Please don't use Google. It requires me to sign in and then I do not have permission to download it. Just use Dropbox and I can download it directly - no fuss, no muss.
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Sorry, don't have either of those programs. Let's try OneDrive. Claims you don't need to log in
DNG from drone this week: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoYyIoNghUYgiF1cxEZaElImMaFc?e=Vysh5O
Sony ARW from 2019: https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoYyIoNghUYgiF7cJQtqZoARKyTx?e=poh9Ib
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They are not programs. They are websites, dropbox.com.
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The OneDrive link worked. Thanks. I have the file and I'll take a look after dinner.
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This is working properly for me. The new Foreground/Background masks are a little confused by this particular image but then it has pretty must the same tone throughout the entire photo. I can see where the AI might have trouble deciding what is foreground and what is not.
The other options all work well as you can see in the screenshot below where I'm pointing at the Sky option and that has been masked.
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I can confirm that it doesn't see water or foliage etc. sky replacement works. Exactly what I have seen with some of my pictures. Nice shot by the way!
The only choices listed are background and foreground but they do nothing. Selecting AI mask on the left panel selects everything.
Using a 4060 GPU here.
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On my system it identifies everything in the list except Foreground. The Flora option finds most of the trees except for a small hole on the lower right and along that edge. Those spots are picked up by the Natural Ground option.
I don't think this is a bug so much as it is an issue with the AI training. I have some images where I see the same thing going on and it is the same type of image with a lot of very similar tones making it difficult to separate the foreground from the background.
You can always ask support if they are still looking for images to do additional training.
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Trying to place four jpgs in this post, each less than 400KB. Keep getting error messages not allowing as the "uploads are limited to 2 MB".
Any way to get these displayed here for you?
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That should work. You can try putting 2 of them in a post and posting twice.
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Ok, take a look. These two RAW photos, were taken within 2 minutes of each other at the same location with slightly different subjects. No editing was done, files were opened, and then attempted first SUPER SELECT AI and then closed. Reopened and again, without any editing, attempted EFFECTS, ADD FILTER. Note the success in the first set and the failure in either method in the second set:
FirstSet:
Second Set:
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I found a tip about this "bug" (from eddykinolphoto): just increase a little the photo exposure, then use select AI; maybe it'll work ?
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It isn't a fair test. On your 2nd attempt you tried using something different. Again, this is a matter of training the AI to do a better job of separating that water from the trees.
All I can tell you is talk to support.
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I have been working with them.
I didn't do anything different on the two sets.
Each was first done with Super Select AI. The second of each set was an attempt to use ADD Filter.
The second set failed to mask with either AI method.
Tried your + exposure tip Gilles, but still failed to mask in either AI manner. Manual masking has always worked.
Hopefully the Tech guys can figure it out.
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I to am having the same terrible issues with super select Ai - selects all or nothing. I have also noticed that some of the options in masking via effects/add filter. This is very frustrating. I tried a re install of the program - but still problems persist. What now?
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After working with Tech support, this was the result:
Hello,
Our dev team has indicated that this issue can occur with certain images, basically the images are flat and failing to match the AI's model for known features.We're working to improve the AI models, but there will be image limations that there aren't any 'fixes' for.
Sorry I don't have better news for you.
Let us know if you need further assistance.
Regards,0 -
I am still unable to see the differences between the two photos I posted above. On one the intelligent masking features work and on the other they don't. As I continue working through some photos I took this week, I am getting the same hit-or-miss on whether or not the intelligent (Super Select AI and Effects, add a filter) works.
It's sad because on the photos they work, they are an incredible tool.
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You may not be able to see the differences but the AI can. You could load both images as Layers then set the top Layer's Blending Mode to Difference. That will show you any differences that the computer can see but you may not be able to. It's hard to say with jpegs posted to a web site but to me it appears the sky are a bit brighter in one photo than the other even though they have identical exposure settings in camera.
Support told you exactly what I told you twice – there isn't anything wrong with the program. It isn't a bug. It is a matter of the AI not having been trained on images of the type you are using. I also suggested that you pass your images along to support so they can be used for further training to improve the results we get.
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Re: Peter wilson post above.
I find that the reply from support to be very surprising because before this latest version I had no trouble using Ai select on many many images - so what has changed to cause this problem. I don't accept the reason given by support.
Mark
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Gilles, sorry it took me so long to reply to your post. Increasing the exposure will not help. The masks are generated directly from the unprocessed RAW data and are already available for use before you can make any edits. This is part of why there is a delay in opening each image. They are being analyzed and the masks generated before we can see them.
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Mark, there were changes made in 2023.5 to how the AI masking works. The new Background & Foreground features were added. This changes the machine learning model that gets generated for the AI to use in analyzing the photos. That in turn changes the results we get.
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Yes, they were given the original unaltered DNGs to work with, and I have no problem with their explanation.
I did notice that if I exported the unaltered DNG to JPG, still neither AI Masking tool would work.
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On a hunch, I tried it on the JPG that had been processed in-camera and the AI masking tools functioned properly.
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The camera processed JPG was probably less monotonal appearing. Set the RAW file's Camera Profile to Linear RAW to see what the image looks like to the AI processor.
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Is your camera producing the DNGs or are they being converted from the camera's RAW format? How does it work one of those?
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Got the same results with the profile change. The DNGs wee produced in-camera. I then tried using Adobe DNG Converter and the AI masking features failed with the resulting DNG.
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