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AI keywords does not work well

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47 comments

  • Ade

    I think when the AI keyword in PR was first released it did identify things like birds, flowers, water, colours etc. However like you it just offers Vivid and Low Key. Not sure how a photo can be both of these. It doesn't ID subjects that take up nearly the whole frame e.g. ship or bird etc. It appears to be less useful in PR2023 than in PR2022.

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    What the program is able to identify is going to be very dependent upon the actual image being analyzed. More than just subject matter matters. It's going to have more problems with tonally flat images.

    Without seeing your actual RAW file it's hard to say if it could be doing a better job of if the AI machine learning engine needs more training for those types of images.

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  • Jorma Pennanen

    OK, I'm just a hobbyist, but apparently all nearly 20 000 pictures I've taken are all so flat that the AI can't make anything out of them. I guess I just have to think of it as a useless feature on program. Does not take much AI to extract keywords from metadata on the pictures :-(. Perhaps I will hunt for some professional pictures on web that I can download and just see if that works or if the whole AI keywords is someway broken?

    Thank you for the info.

     

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  • Keith Reeder

    I think you need to give it a chance, Jorma - this is a first iteration of the functionality, and it's absolutely certain to improve over time.

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  • Jorma Pennanen

    Hi Keith,

    sure, I will give it a chance in the future updates. I just have never seen something promised fail so badly in a program. As this is not the main feature why I use On1, it is not that serious for me. Just find it strange that it does not seem to work at all. Usually if I've stumbled onto something of a similar type, my first reaction has always been that I'm doing something wrong. In this case, it seems not to be the culprit. Actually hoping it had been :-)

     

     

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  • Paul Filmer

    I'm glad its not just me. Thoroughly underwhelmed!

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  • Mister Dalliard

    It's not just you. I have given it a chance and I put it to you that if the only keywords it can come up with for this image are "High-Key" and "Vivid" then the product does not work as advertised.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    An update and use your guide released today. See if that does any better

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  • Mister Dalliard

    Yes... quite a bit better. Keywords offered now are:

    Animal, Bear, Black, Carnivore, Color, Daytime, Ecoregion, Felidae, Grass, Habitat, Image, Lion, Mammal, Masai lion, Plant, River, Rock, Sky, Terrestrial animal, Tree, Vertebrate, Wildlife

    There are a few I won't be using (not a bear, no rivers but I can see how it could guess those) but overall whoever updated it done good...

    ... at least for the stand-alone Keyword AI application. Photo RAW's Keyword AI is still only giving me High-Key and Vivid and is saying there are no updates since version 17.5.1.14051.

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  • Paul Filmer

    I agree - from a recent email I beige they are claiming that all the features of the new stand alone keyword app are already embedded in Photo Raw.  Album full of RAW dog photos - not one flagged up!

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  • Ade

    I don't know if installing the first version of Photo Keyword AI mucked up the AI in Photo Raw but I suspect it might have as it appears you can't have both ON1 PK and ON1 PR open at the same time. So I removed Photo Keyword, uninstalled Photo Raw, restart install Photo Raw ( it didn't complete uninstall as I didn't have to sign in or set up catalogue folders again) 

    Tried a Keyword AI scan and just got Low Key and or Vivid. It didn't recognise birds, animals, boats etc etc. So something not right at the moment.

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  • Ray Miles

    I got what I suppose is an acceptable result when I downloaded the lion pic and scanned it in 2023.5. No bear or river thankfully.

    I do think, however, that it's a gimmick and wish that On1 would concentrate on more useful features. I have been asking for a better "transform" tool for years. The current one is way to time consuming and I often end up resorting to DxO ViewPoint. Even LR was better.

    And don't get me on how poor Tack Sharp is!

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Ade, it wasn't necessary to remove either program or to reinstall Photo RAW. Just run one program or the other at any one time. Because they both need access to the same files (the .on1 and .xmp sidecar files) you don't want both programs trying to make changes to them simultaneously. That's why you don't run them together.

    As for the uninstall, no it does not remove every piece of the program from your system. Actually, it does remove the program what it does not remove is your user data. That is why your Catalogs, Albums, existing keywords, and edits were all left in place and why you did not have to sign back in.

    Have you installed the update that was released yesterday?

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  • Paul Filmer

    Update?  Photo Raw is still saying that 17.5.1.14051 is most up to date.

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    14051 is the most recent update that I was talking about.

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  • Adrian Coleman

    I am currently using the trial version and received the notification that there is an update available for

    On1 Photo Keyword AI 2023

    So I have downloaded it but the DMG file will not open it just stays as the Safari Icon. 

    Should I uninstall v 14508 first or should the update install without deleting.

    Any advice would be welcome please


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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    The installer did not finish downloading and safari is unable to finish it. You have to download it again.

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  • Adrian Coleman

    Hi Brian I have tried downloading 3 times now and all the same 

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    How are you downloading the installer? Are you doing it through the program or are you going directly to the ON1 website to download it with Safari? Have you tried a different browser?

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Paul, build 14051 is the latest Photo RAW release. However, this topic is on Keyword AI which is at 14077.

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  • Ade

    Hi Brian Lawson, yes I have PR 17.5.1.14051 installed, doesn't seem to make any difference. The AI keyword just picks up the histogram stuff Vivid etc, no birds, boats etc.

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  • Adrian Coleman

    Brian,I am downloading through the program and have tried Safari,Firefox,Chrome but all the same result.

    When I first downloaded the Trials I tried to sign in at the top but it said the program is not recognised so I contacted support and they told me I didn't need to sign in on a trial version so i'm assuming this wouldn't be the problem with the download ?

    Regards Adrian 

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I don't know what is going on then Adrian, I'm sorry. Yes, it isn't necessary to sign in with the Trial version. If fact, until you have purchased the program you cannot sign in. Signing in is what turns off the Trial mode.

    What does the downloaded file's icon look like? It should look like this except for the name. I've added the build number to it on mine.

     

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  • Adrian Coleman

    Hi Brian this is the Original

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    That is interesting. It sure looks like you've got the whole thing. If it was an unfinished download there would be a Safari icon with the .download extension.

    Does the .dmg mount on your Desktop? What do it's contents look like? There should be just an installer package in it.

     

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  • Adrian Coleman

    This is the Package contents details from my first version (The trial)

    Regarding the Update I cannot get past the Download icon of the Browser which I posted on my original question. 

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I need to see the file that you are attempting to download. Which program is showing you that "can't resume download" message?

    There should be another file in your Downloads folder with the same name and possibly a -2 since you still have the first one. It probably also has the extension .download.

    Are you seeing anything like this?

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  • Adrian Coleman

    Regarding the update through the program this is what I get when  click on install now it goes to the 

    Downloading software part and once it has downloaded I Gert to the safari Icon which you normally click on the get the DMG installer but it will not get past the Safari part. 

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  • Adrian Coleman

    I have used the installer on the Mac for several bits and pieces just to see if there is a problem on the iMac installer but everything installs correctly it just seems to be the On1 download. I want to be able to compare the versions as at the moment I am getting the same as other users regarding the Keywords and im certainly not going to pay for something that won't install properly from the start regarding updates etc.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    The only thing I can think of is that you cannot update the program unless you are signed in to it. That doesn't make much sense to me but I'm shooting in the dark here now.

    I would try this. Manually uninstall the program and its preferences and user data. Basically start from scratch. Trash the following folders and files:

    1. /Applications/ON1 Keyword AI 2023
    2. ~/Library/Preferences/com.ononesoftware.ON1PhotoRAW2023.premium.plist
    3. ~/Library/Application Support/ON1/ON1 Photo Keyword AI 2023
    4. Any installers complete or not that are in your Downloads folder.

    If this doesn't work you'll have to talk to support who won't be in until Monday. FYI, the people you talk to here do not work for the company. We are just other users like yourself.

    Also, I'm going out for a bit so if I don't respond for a while that is why.

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