Looking forward to Photo Raw 2024
Just looking at the sneak peek for 2024 and some interesting things to look forward to...
https://www.on1.com/landing/early-bird/
- On One Photo Raw MAX brings back the plug in ability for Photo Raw. I see this as the first step in phasing out the Prof Plugin package. Why would we need both?
- Ultimate speed and performance upgrades. We get promised this every year. If they actually do it this year, that would be great.
- Improved highlight recovery. Cool, we got an update a while ago that works not too bad but blown highlights are hard to deal with. Further improvements are welcomed.
- Enhanced transform. The features seem to include parts of both of our current transforms. Are they finally combining them together?
- Enhanced cataloging! Finally, the ability to control the catalog. This should have been done ages ago.
- Text LAYERS!!! It's about time. Text has been so difficult to use without layers. This should have been done when it was first implemented.
If these features work as described, this will be a very nice upgrade but I'm going to need to see it in action before I'm convinced.
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I know what they do too, I'm not the one having the issue, it's the new users that can't figure out why "Transform" isn't doing what it's supposed to do because they don't know there are two of them. Then when you try to correct the problem you ALWAYS have to explain that there are two and which they should be using. It's a built in problem that should never have existed.
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I was also puzzled as a new user some years back, and having come from Lightroom. What are the two "Transform" tools called in LR? I don't know about other photo editors, but I recall that in DxO PhotoLab 6, which I tried on demo, the one I am talking about is called "Perspective". Its tools are roughly equivalent to what's in the standalone DxO Viewpoint. The one downside there is that it only works on TIFF files, but then it doesn't support iPhone images either; and it's often these where I want to correct the perspective. For example:
Original DNG taken on iPhone SE with the On1 Photo app:
TIFF file created by DxO Viewpoint:
I was not able to get as good a result using "transform" within On1 PR!
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A new video (12 minutes) showing the new interface has been added…. Just watching now.
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Tim: Is that the same video linked by Rick at the top of this thread?
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Ray, no, it's a new video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuoZQC-fRm0&t=2s&ab_channel=ON1
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Some huge improvements here if they work on the majority of hardware rather than only supercomputers. This is what I've been waiting for and I'm hoping also for improvements to specific tools eg NoNoise. All in all though, I'm pleased to see that the focus in 2024 will be on usability and UI improvements rather than more tools I may or may not use.
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Ray - as Rick says it’s a new video and as well as the YouTube link he gave, you can also access it via the one in his original post.
They have updated the Early Bird page so that under the interface information, it says ‘watch now’ instead of ‘sneak peak coming soon’.
Looking forward to more coming!
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"Some huge improvements here if they work on the majority of hardware rather than only supercomputers."
Seriously unlikely. Modern AI processing needs computer grunt, and there's no getting around this.
I'm sure we'll see some optimisation, but there are hard limits to what can be done here.
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I wasn't talking about the AI aspects, just the improvements to the UI, menus and everyday tools. We aren't all focused on AI in our workflow. Some of what of seen is reminiscent of Affinity Photo who have got it right in my opinion.
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Thanks for the link Rick. Strangely, it wasn’t showing on the On1 YouTube channel on my TV
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The new video is amazing, thank you. The changes to the UI will take some getting used to, but, I can't tell you how many times I accidentally hit the 'Resize' button while trying to grab the slider. Looks like they have done a ton of work to simplify the interface, which it needed.
Only thing I'm not sure about is where they have put the 'perfect brush' option. I liked having the icon change color so when I'm painting away and nothing is happening, it's a oh, I left the perfect brush on.
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System requirements looks very similar to 2023. Graphics-wise, minimum VRAM IS 4GB (up from 2) but recommended is the same.
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Ray - as Rick says it’s a new video and as well as the YouTube link he gave, you can also access it via the one in his original post.
They have updated the Early Bird page so that under the interface information, it says ‘watch now’ instead of ‘sneak peak coming soon’.
Looking forward to more coming!
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Keep in mind that those requirements are meant to attract as wide an audience as possible. Yes the program will run on a system with minimum specs but will the user be happy with the performance level?
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Sure - it was more the fact that the recommended GPU hadn’t changed that interested me, as that’s the level people should expect decent performance.
With the CPU, although clock speed is the same, they have specified that eight-cores is recommended, which I don’t think was specified in the past.
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Just watched the new video. Some good ideas but it depends on how they will implement them. Hopefully once set up will not require more mouse clicks to do our editing. Hopefully there will be persistance of changes we make to customize. He talked about creating workspaces which leaves me hopeful...Hopefully I can create a workspace which is efficient for me and you can create one customized for you.
Steve
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Tim, the YouTube link came from the ON1 post. It's the same video. I just used the link to isolate that one video from the whole preview page.
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"I wasn't talking about the AI aspects, just the improvements to the UI, menus and everyday tools."
Are people finding them particularly slow now?
If they are, it's still because they're using underpowered hardware.
Barely scraping by on minimum system requirements is no way to spend time.
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Just watched the video and wow! The new UI is so changed; like looking at a new program.
I share Dave's concern about system requirements and I have just had an exchange with Stevie in Support about this question. He did say that I would benefit from upgrading my GPU from GTX 1050 ti to the RTX 30xx or 40xx versions. However, this means an upgrade of the PSU as well. Not sure that my B360 Gaming baseboard can take it anyway.
The recommended specs also mention Open GL 4.2 rather than 3.3 and 8GB Vram so you can see the system creep going on. Did I see a reference to 8 core systems somewhere as well?!
When looking at the speed of loading and opening images to edit that Dan showed in the video I do wonder at the SYSCONFIG he has!
Thanks to everyone for the discussion on this thread,
Vic
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Yep, there's no such thing as a free lunch, Victor.
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I'm pretty sure that everybody here understands the benefits of higher spec hardware Keith. That being said, your comments would have more credibility if other software didn't out-perform On1 on like for like hardware, Affinity Photo and Darktable to name just two. And while neither are stuffed full of AI bloatware, both are crédible editors in their own rights. We all know that feature bloat plays a huge role in performance slowdown so streamlining code can only bring benefits irrespective of the hardware platform. I for one applaud On1 for taking the opportunity to do something about the clunky overly complex UI, which by the way I see mentioned negatively time and time again on other forums.
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I note that the ON1 specs for 2023 do not mention the processor type, generation or cores. Elsewhere I have seen reference to the later generation (eg, 12th) multi core requirements for gaming and photo editing along with later generation GPUs - like the RTX 30xx and 40xx. Rick has asserted at least 4GB of VRam should be specified and most newer GPUs come with 8GB.
Perhaps ON1 could include some comments on how processing works in ON1 PR and how it relates to the need for CPU multi core processing, GPUs and their Vram spec, that would add more context to the technical specs. This might save a lot of frustration for users when comparing their own computers with the specs. I have been battling this for years and now have come to realise how critical this may be along with a discovery that my spec-built PC had critical components that do not meet the specs for multi core and Vram.
Apologies if this is a bit off subject.
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Hardware and software are linked Victor so it's quite handy to view specific and useful comments on how to make On1 run better in the future. My concern though is that it isn't in On1's interests to provide quantative information on the absolute minimum specification needed to run On1 flawlessly. That spec would likely push some buyers towards better optimised and less bloated editors, for example Affinity Photo. And I can understand this as many users might be prepared to wait 10 seconds to load an image etc because On1 delivers everything they need in a single solution. For my part though, I will be upgrading my hardware this year and I would value specific information that will help me choose the right components when I do this.
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New video accessible from the early bird page or: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0OJeLRs3xY
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Victor - the technical speculations has a bit more detail for 2024 than 2023 and shows the minimum and recommended number of cores.
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David, I too will be upgrading and I have been scoping what is on offer. I also found a number of articles about the relative imortance of CPU and GPU. An article in PCG also explains these variants here: https://pcguide101.com/gpu/do-you-need-a-graphics-card-for-photo-editing/#CPU_vs_GPU_for_Photo_Editing_%E2%80%93_Which_is_More_Important
As you said, if you don't mind waiting for rendering of images (GPU) then you can focus on CPU which does the grunt work for logic, physics and AI instruction. I also spoke to a freelance computer tech that has helped me with PC issues for many years and he suggested a processor of at least i7 12th gen.
I live in Sydney so if you are in the US you may have access to more advanced gear, but my research so far will get me an i7 13th Gen 1300K 16 core processor with 32GB of 3200Mhz DDR4 RAM, an RTX 4070 GPU with 12GB of Vram, 2 TB of ssd storage and 750w psu for less than AUS$3000. I also note that the ti version for GPUs makes for faster rendering at 4k which seems unnecessary to me. I gather the power of the PSU makes the GPU more efficient and 750w is a good choice.
I shall be interested in comments on this configuration. Am I over doing it?
Vic.
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Victor, early this year I upgraded my homebuilt desktop which is based on a small form factor case. The case limits my cooling options a bit, so I went with an i5-13600k which only has 14 cores. It has 32gb of ddr4 memory and an RTX 3070 with 8gb (the 4070's weren't available yet), and a couple of m.2 SSD's. My prior system had an eighth generation i7 and a 2060 GPU. It actually ran Photo Raw 2023 OK, but the upgraded system flies through everything, and Photo Raw is generally the most demanding thing I run on my PC. Your proposed configuration is faster, but maybe 25% faster. You could get by with a somewhat lesser configuration, but I certainly don't think it's overkill and it should last you longer.
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Ken, your system is pretty much the way I'm thinking of going. The i5-13600K is plenty good enough really as is the GPU you're using especially as I've seen it here in the UK for about £400. While we could certainly all spend mega-bucks, I'm not sure that gaining 25% for an extra £1000 of spend is worth it for me although for others it might be important. In fairness my commercial work could easily be done using Affinity Photo or Darktable and they work perfectly well on my old hardware. It'll be interesting to see what if any improvement comes from the 2024 version of PR on my existing hardware. That'll be the point to spec out a new PC. I'm in no particular hurry.
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Thanks Ken and David.
Yes, I agree best to wait for ON1 2024 before finalising a spec. My rationale for maybe going a bit extra was to stay ahead for a bit as well, however I will continue to ponder. Having a better feel for what unit does what in photo editing has helped understand the tradeoffs between CPU and GPU grunt.
I expect that other members may expand this discussion further.
Vic.
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I think that as the popularity of Photo Raw has grown, so it has become more difficult for ON1. Do they please the people who only use their product? or do they please the people who mainly use other software and only use Photo Raw as a plug in? They can't please everyone. So welcome to the real world of compromise.
Personally, all that matters to me is that Photo Raw keeps on getting better. Which year after year, it has done.
I am looking forward to the other Sneak Peak videos, but I am already planning to buy PR 2024.
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