Looking forward to Photo Raw 2024
Just looking at the sneak peek for 2024 and some interesting things to look forward to...
https://www.on1.com/landing/early-bird/
- On One Photo Raw MAX brings back the plug in ability for Photo Raw. I see this as the first step in phasing out the Prof Plugin package. Why would we need both?
- Ultimate speed and performance upgrades. We get promised this every year. If they actually do it this year, that would be great.
- Improved highlight recovery. Cool, we got an update a while ago that works not too bad but blown highlights are hard to deal with. Further improvements are welcomed.
- Enhanced transform. The features seem to include parts of both of our current transforms. Are they finally combining them together?
- Enhanced cataloging! Finally, the ability to control the catalog. This should have been done ages ago.
- Text LAYERS!!! It's about time. Text has been so difficult to use without layers. This should have been done when it was first implemented.
If these features work as described, this will be a very nice upgrade but I'm going to need to see it in action before I'm convinced.
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Agree 100% with David. As a recent convert from PS which I used for 20+ years, I have never looked back. On1's workflow seems so intuitive to me where in PS seemed I was always searching for the right tool to use. Also think it's great that On1 is simplifying the UI, like it says in the video, there are buttons everywhere.
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Like others here, I will also be upgrading to PR 2024. As another, long-time Ps user who has abandoned it for PR, the ON1 product is like having all your tools in a well-organized workshop as opposed to Adobe, where tools are scattered all over field and farm. There's little doubt that I will like the new layout once I get used to it.
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Since I am thinking I need to upgrade my hardware I took a look at the hardware specification for ON1 and was quite surprised by how light this is even for an optimal configuration. Since I use both a PC and a laptop, both running under Windows 10 Pro I thought I would look to see what resources ON1 uses when working on a typical edit. For this test I used the laptop as the specification is lower than for the PC. I used Ai masking to paint in some people, architecture and man-made objects and then added some dynamic contrast, I also added a Sunshine filter and a Polarising Filter to the whole image - nothing much really but typical of a basic edit. I also did some basic editing in Develop. During the tests, I also opened and edited a few other images, the core Intel GPU only ever reached 41% while the Nvidia GPU only reached 21% during editing. RAM though pretty much maxed out through the whole editing process sitting at 86% - 92% of max capacity. The CPU was however relatively untested, other than when opening an image to edit when it reached 80%, normal operation being typically around 20% - 40% for the most part. It is clear to me that RAM appears to be the bottleneck in my case as I read somewhere that you need to be operating at less than 80% of max capacity to be safe. I am now going to see if the laptop can take a RAM upgrade - it currently has just 12GB - so maybe going up to16GB to see if this helps. Overall though, the laptop handled the edits really well, I wasn't waiting around for anything much. Of course if you are changing sky's and doing loads of artistic things your hardware might struggle more than mine but the proposed improvements to ON1 should make even my old laptop work more smoothly. That would be a bonus! Comments welcome.
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A few years ago, I came a cropper, when I made a modest upgrade to RAM. i.e., I bought only what I thought that I needed. Then found that I needed more. By which time the type of RAM that I was using was out of date and hard to get.
So, when upgrading RAM I always buy as much as the mother board can handle. I upgraded my most recent laptop from 16 GB to 64 GB, which is all that the motherboard can handle. I don't think that PR actually needs that much RAM, but I often use files with multiple layers and lots of masks and blends, and PR runs smoothly.
I used to run PR 2022 on an old laptop with only integrated graphics and 16 GB of shared RAM. It ran, but it ran very slowly. When PR 2023 arrived, my old laptop struggled a lot, and I went back to running PR 22 on it. As far as I could see, PR 2022 was placing heavy loads upon both the CPU and the GPU of the old laptop. But, the loads varied, depending on which module/part of PR was being used.
Now my new laptop has a 12th gen Intel and a modern Nvidia GPU, and the 64 GB of RAM, PR 2023 is fast, and allows me to do some quite complex masking/editing. The fans can become quite noisy though, especially when it is cataloguing in the background.
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"I'm pretty sure that everybody here understands the benefits of higher spec hardware Keith."
That's not my point, David.
My point is that hoping for significant performance improvements to resource-intensive AI tools to come from software optimisation alone is a naïve fool's errand.
"That being said, your comments would have more credibility if other software didn't out-perform On1 on like for like hardware"
My comments have more than enough "credibility" for the point I'm making. It is utterly irrelevant to compare the supposed like-for-like performance of one piece of software to another, because under the hood they're never "like-for-like".
We have literally no clue how (say) Adobe's AI Denoise works compared to ON1's NoNoise AI (anyone who says otherwise is either deluded or lying) and interestingly (and handily disproving your assertion) ON1's implementation flies in comparison to Adobe's.
Doubtless Adobe will refine its code - there's is a first attempt - but the underlying point stands that such heavy number-crunching requires the kit do do it, and there's no avoiding the fact. The fact that two programmes do ostensibly similar things doesn't mean they do them in the same way, so comparisons are pointless and meaningless.
And again: my point is explicitly about AI functionality: what AI tools do Affinity and Darktable have?
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"And again: my point is explicitly about AI functionality: what AI tools do Affinity and Darktable have?"
I don't really care about so-called Ai. I didn't mention my reliance or interest in Ai and I didn't buy On1 for Ai, I bought it because it has tools I want to use and a perpetual licence structure. I have been purely talking about the proposed UI changes, the improved menus and yes, I dare to hope, some improved performance because of the streamlining of the code.
You have positive things to say Keith but your tone is unnecessarily combative. It's not necessary!! We all want the same thing, software that works and works well.
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Yes, everyone let's keep it civil. Just a comment here on AI. Originally I thought Okay, kind of a gimmick but might have some uses. Since then, I find I'm using it a lot, even when it doesn't get it exactly right a few touch ups with a brush and I'm 99% of the way there. There are the occasions where it just doesn't flag anything, it's on those pictures I'm saying, dang wish it was there.
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I must admit that I like photoraw, but I had a terrible shock when I received an e mail telling me I had been charged nearly £190 for the privilege of using the new upcoming version, and all the extras that go with it.
For an occasional amateur photographer with disabilities I think the price is too high. This may well be my last year of using On1 products - which would be a shame.
Mark
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Victor, in reply to your question on the Nvidia GTX 1050 TI, I had this card along with an i5 CPU and 16GB Ram found On1 struggled, slow previews and brushing anything was like dragging your foot through thick mud. I upgraded to an I7 CPU, Gforce GTX 2060 6GB GPU kept memory at 16Gb and that made a big difference but still stutters at times, actually looking going for a Mac Mini M1 or M2 with 512 disc and 16GB memory as this seems to get the thumbs up from others on here and elsewhere.
Russ.
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I must admit that I like photoraw, but I had a terrible shock when I received an e mail telling me I had been charged nearly £190 for the privilege of using the new upcoming version, and all the extras that go with it.
Mark, What is this supposed to mean? The only version announced so far is the MAX version which is not a direct upgrade to the standard Photo Raw version. The standard Photo Raw upgrade hasn't been announced yet and no price has been set for it as far as I know. In addition, you would not be charged if you didn't order it.
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Rick,
Look at my account and you will see that I have been charged £189 odd for the new max version and all the trimmings. I was already a member of on1 plus from last year. What I have been charged is for the equivalent new package I assume. I did not expressly order the new Max package. Whichever way you skin it - it is a lot of money.
Mark
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Mark, we do not have access to your account information like that. We are just other users like yourself. You should probably talk to customer service about that. You can use the submit a request link.
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David, I too am not interested in using AI to create photograpic elements of an image, but I think we have to acknowledge the vast improvement in masking brought about by AI. Masking and brushing has always been the issue with using ON1 for me since I changed in 2017 from LR; jittery and often freezing. I upgraded my PC in 2018 thnking that 16GB of RAM and an i5 generation processor would be the answer. Not so, as I realised that the GPU was also critical.
Russell, thanks for your comments on the GTX 1050 Ti. As I said in an earlier post I have recently discovered that my PC processor is not what I ordered and paid for in 2018. I thought I was getting an i5 4 core, but I received an i5 two core. I think this is why I have such slow previews and image loading to edits as well as jittery brushing.
My objective now is to try and spec an upgrade that optimises the processing method of ON1. Hence my quest to better understand the role of CPU, RAM and GPU and in particular, how ON1 uses them.
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Hi Victor. I tend to agree about the benefits of improved masking in On1. It's hugely superior to that offered in Luminar Neo and other software so it's a bonus.
I'm quite surprised about the comments I'm seeing regarding the need to significantly update hardware. My recent tests, although not extensive or exhaustive, showed more reliance on the CPU and RAM than on the GPU. I'll repeat tomorrow but with more emphasis on masking and brush work because I know that this does slow down the computer more than just general editing. It could also be that apart from the NEF files from my Nikon, these are 24MP, I typically work on relatively small images as I use a lot of old CCD sensor cameras. This could have a big impact on why my old hardware copes quite well.
The other point of course is that my post-processing activity will likely be very different to yours and others here. I mostly do what I would call technical editing in my commercal work as opposed to artistic work in beautifying images. While I do do some of the latter the vast majority of my personal photography is either film, SOOC or limited editing. None of this really stretches my hardware hence perhaps my findings earlier.
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Brian
I will submit a request as you suggest - many thanks.
Mark
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Mark:
Regarding pricing. In the past I have used a VPN to switch to the US to purchase On1 and other software.
For example, I am being offered On1 Max for the peso equivalent of $180 here in Mexico. That is still cheaper than the UK price, where VAT is 20+% compared to IVA of 15% here. The US price is $149.99, plus whatever sales tax applies. I use a friend's address in NYC and have never had a problem, even though my credit and debit cards are registered in either Mexico or the UK!
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By the way, is there away to switch threads to showing most recent posts first? I can't see a pulldown to change it, and it is a bore to have to scroll down to a third page now on this thread to see and reply to the latest posts, even though I am being notified of them by email
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Unfortunately there is not. That would be a nice feature. Or, like the Plus Forum where clicking the link in the email message takes you directly to that post.
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Brian, there was a link in the email I just received, and it took me to Page 3!
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Ray Miles,
Thanks for the suggestions regarding prices etc.
Mark
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DOH! Early morning brain fart.
It’s when we have to sign in again that it returns us to the top of the page. The links on the overview page on Plus can take you right to the post or to the 1st post depending upon which you use.
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Just watched the latest video on PR 2024 - very interesting. I also see that the push is on to buy PR 2024 sight-unseen but I think on this occasion I'm gonna hang back and give the free month trial a good workout before committing. Everything I'm seeing and hearing sounds really positive but a $30 discount and a bunch of sky's I'll never use is hardly an incentive to jump in early. That being said, I'm more excited by this release than any previous one purely because it focuses on performance above gimmicky add-ons. Fingers crossed it lives up to expectations.
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Being happy with PR 2023, I will probably opt for PR 2024 but will wait to see what the upgrade price is on the non-MAX standalone. I have to say that Brilliance AI looks promising; however, I almost never pay for anything pre-release. I, too, have no need for more sky pics; however, I do use them (mostly for non-recoverable, washed-out skies) but take my own with a drone (giving me a sky set with various sun positions to match whatever is in the photo).
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They haven't said anything officially about the price for the regular non-Max version of the program but they did say on a Facebook post that it would be the same as last year.
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That's great about there being no price increase on the non-Max version. Especially considering worldwide inflation in the past year.
I paid under $80 on Sep 6 2023 and I think that would have included a pre-order discount and the use of a Scott Davenport coupon.
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Hey guys, looked at my subscription page today and the pricing was $74 for regular and $150 for plus.
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Hi
Over the years ON1 seems to have done it's best to keep the prices steady. For which I am grateful. But, ON1 has to pass on the local sales tax, i.e., Value Added Tax at 20%.
Also ON1, (not unreasonably expects to be paid in a hard currency), i.e, US Dollars. So as the Pound Sterling continues to slide, the price that I have to pay has doubled. So whilst I know what I will have to pay in Dollars, I am crossing my fingers that the bods in Number 10 & 11 Downing Street don't do anything stupid, between now and the end of September...
It would actually be nice to be able to pay in advance, rather than have the uncertainty of waiting, and reading the currency changes.
Looking forward to renewing my Plus Membership :-)
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There are some who use VPNs to appear as US customers to avoid things like VAT.
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Hi Brian
I guess that it is a morale issue. I don't mind paying fair taxes, after all Free Health Care, State Pensions, Roads, etc., all cost money to provide. Taxes is how the Government pays for it all.
What I am nervous about is currency changes, and the current UK Government's record.
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I won't argue that.
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