Looking forward to Photo Raw 2024
Just looking at the sneak peek for 2024 and some interesting things to look forward to...
https://www.on1.com/landing/early-bird/
- On One Photo Raw MAX brings back the plug in ability for Photo Raw. I see this as the first step in phasing out the Prof Plugin package. Why would we need both?
- Ultimate speed and performance upgrades. We get promised this every year. If they actually do it this year, that would be great.
- Improved highlight recovery. Cool, we got an update a while ago that works not too bad but blown highlights are hard to deal with. Further improvements are welcomed.
- Enhanced transform. The features seem to include parts of both of our current transforms. Are they finally combining them together?
- Enhanced cataloging! Finally, the ability to control the catalog. This should have been done ages ago.
- Text LAYERS!!! It's about time. Text has been so difficult to use without layers. This should have been done when it was first implemented.
If these features work as described, this will be a very nice upgrade but I'm going to need to see it in action before I'm convinced.
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Interesting. Long term user of the base ON1PR perpetual licence. US user. Cant find anywhere the US price to upgrade from 23.5 to 24. Only options I see are the MAX upgrade or plus
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Same here. Maybe it's only people who have purchased the subscription model who are seeing the price of $74 quoted above.
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That's because it hasn't been announced yet. The only release so far is the promotion for the new MAX version.
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Yes the $73 was for a years subscription, didn't see a buy it outright price.
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I am a Plus Member, and under the Subscriptions tab on the Plus Website, the date when the next payment for Plus and the amount in £ Sterling is already listed. I gather that provided I am still a Plus Member, when PR 2024 launches, I will be entitled to download and install it.
As the next payment will be both for Plus and PR 2024, the exact price may vary, especially once you add in Value Added Tax (VAT), and/or other purchase taxes.
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One thing I have noticed, especially as for my leisure photography I now only really shoot using older CCD cameras is that my ability to edit these images is vastly improved over the sluggish RAW files from the more modern cameras I own. For example, RAW files from my Nikon D200 are only 16MB in size whereas the RAW files from my Nikon D600 max out at 28MB. This begs the question, do programs like On1 struggle more in 2023 because of the huge file sizes the software has to process. I imagine some of you guys are shooting images of 40MB upwards especially with the newer mirrorless cameras available. That alone must put some strain on the software you use to edit. Any thoughts on this?
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What kind of hardware are you running? I'm using an M1 Mac mini with a Canon R5 and ~50MB files and the program performs well for me.
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For much of my editing I'm using a fairly outdated, although top of the line in its day, Asus Zenbook with 12GB RAM, an i7 processor and a fairly old Nvidia GPU. Working on the vast majority of my images causes no significant issues at all other than a little slowdown when brushing which I rarely use. I do however maintain every part of my system with regular driver updates, operating system maintenance and regular deletion of bloat and stuff that clogs my system up. There's a 16GB RAM upgrade on the way to beef up the RAM to 24GB as the PC is still viable for many tasks. I am however planning a new PC build but thought I might wait to see if PR 2024 works on the old Zenbook and if so, if there's any additional improvement.
I can certainly live with PR 2023 especially as I focus nowadays on using older camera hardware with relatively small image sizes but I'm up for PR 2024 if it delivers on its promise.
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- I have had a few years of running versions of PR on a PC that really did not have enough RAM and only a weak GPU. It was very frustrating, as whenever the RAM was filled. My PC would crash and take most of my edits with it.
I learnt to frequently return to Browse so as to save the ON1 files, so that there would be something left after the next crash.
Often, I could not complete complex edits, because the masks and/or filters filled the RAM.
I sympathise, because photo editing on an underpowered PC is not a fun experience. I was lucky enough to recently be able to buy a much more powerful PC, and the difference is staggering. Photo Raw is now so quick and hardly ever crashes. However, in hindsight, I made one mistake. I got a Windows 11 machine, but an Apple Mac, like Brians would perhaps have been better.
For just over a couple of months I was unable to Export layered files, and the toolbars and controls vanish as you edit. On1 Support have been very honest and helpful. A solution to the vanishing controls is almost certainly on the way soon. Although I have found that the toolbars may be invisible, but click in the right place on the screen and the controls are still there. This week and this morning, Windows 11 had some massive updates, and like magic, I can now export images from layered files. Which confirms that the issue was caused by Windows 11 and not by ON1..
I don't know what Brian’s view would be, but I get the impression from the forums that Apple Macs have less issues than Windows PCs.
Best wishes David Price
0 - I have had a few years of running versions of PR on a PC that really did not have enough RAM and only a weak GPU. It was very frustrating, as whenever the RAM was filled. My PC would crash and take most of my edits with it.
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David Price, regarding your previous post...
I am a Plus Member, and under the Subscriptions tab on the Plus Website, the date when the next payment for Plus and the amount in £ Sterling is already listed. I gather that provided I am still a Plus Member, when PR 2024 launches, I will be entitled to download and install it.
If you do in fact have ON1 Plus as stated, then this is not correct. ON1 Plus does not include any software.
On the other hand, if you meant ON1 EVERYTHING Plus, then yes, it will be included.
If instead you have ON1 Plus PRO, which is grandfathered, I'm sure you'll get a free upgrade to Photo Raw std, but not sure if it qualifies for Photo Raw MAX.
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I have had a few years of running versions of PR on a PC that really did not have enough RAM and only a weak GPU. It was very frustrating, as whenever the RAM was filled. My PC would crash and take most of my edits with it.
I'm not sure that you've understood my point David. My PC could be considered "underpowered" by today's standards but I am not experiencing anything like the problems many users have reported, including anything like what you saw in your usage. My PC, yes, it's a windows machine, runs On1 pretty well, especially now that as I fitted the new 16GB RAM module this evening so I now have 24GB RAM to play with. Even so, previously I hardly saw any crashes but as I said in my post, I do keep my OS in tip-top condition.
My point was more about file sizes and the impact these may, or may not have, on On1 performance. My experience, especially since I started to photograph using older CCD sensor cameras, is that any issues I used to have have decreased substantially. These old cameras create fabulous images, in fact some of the best I feel I have ever taken, but without the overhead associated with images taken on modern sensors. I don't know if anyone else here shoots with CCD sensor cameras but I would be interested to hear your views on whether you also find On1 to offer improved performance because of the smaller images sizes.
Interestingly, On1 seems to max out at 11GB RAM usage on my Zenbook for a typical edit which with just 12GB available until this evening was a bottleneck. Now I have 24GB there's plenty of headroom. Luminar Neo BTW consumed less RAM before I upgraded, about 7-8GB but now hogs out at 11-12GB so practically the same as for On1 for similar edits. I did however notice the CPU under Neo hit 100% on some edits so that's interesting. I'm not trying to compare editors here BTW, just presenting the results of monitoring RAM usage during use.
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Hi Rick
I am on the Grandfathered Option.
I'm not worried as to whether or not I get the Max version. Because I walked away from Adobe's products many years ago. I am just looking forward to the new version of Photo Raw.
Best wishes
David Price
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Hi David Collerton
I agree that the old cameras are still very capable. And, I'd go further and say that such as NoNoise and Photo Raw have greatly extended the working life of, and improved the performance of my cameras.
I can understand why such as Hudson Henry need very large sensors. They are working for clients who expect massive files for advertising, etc. But, the largest print that I ever need is A3, and a 12 MP sensor at 300 dpi is all that is needed for such small print sizes. Add on Resize AI, and the typical 20 MP sensor on a micro 4/3rds camera allows you to crop in by quite a lot.
Having said that, when I do layered works, containing multiple images, Windows Explorer often says that a large part of the 64 GB of RAM is in use. And both of the GPUs will often be running at 50%.
Best wishes
David Price
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Hi David
It makes you wonder how we all managed with 4MP digital cameras back in the early 2000's. But of course, we did.
Most of today's belt-busting sensor sizes are vanity and ego, I doubt anyone much needs a 20MP sensor let alone an 80MP one. In fact I feel that some of my most memorable shots have come out of my little Lumix GX80 which sports a massive 16MP M43 sensor. That's not to say that some of my Sony weilding friends dont come up with some draw-dropping shots, they really do. It's just that their hardware has to be equally jaw-dropping to work with those files.
I'm guessing BTW that when you talk about layered photos you mean this in the context of On1 rather than Affinity Photo or Photoshop ie you're talking about image layers. I've never had any issues with Affinity Photo for example on any PC I've used with a half-decent spec. It just handles pretty much anything.
Out of interest, and I might have missed this, what is your computer spec? It sounds somewhat of a beast.
Take care
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Hi David Collerton
My laptop was originally specified by my youngest to use during the last year of his computer science degree course. They were studying AI Code, and the academics advised that the PC should have an Intel Core i9, and a pretty good graphics card.
Then the Uni decided that they wanted all of the students to have exactly the same machine, and the Uni gave every student a free laptop. Which was AMD based, but just as powerful. Which left youngest with a hole in his bank balance, and a PC that he didn't need. So, Dad stepped in and bought the now unwanted laptop.
It was well set up for coding, but not that good for photography. I needed more hard drive space in the form of two new SSDs, and I maxed out the RAM. The laptop was assembled in the UK by PC Specialist.
Personally, I would be happy with a less powerful CPU, but the unexpected benefit is that the CPU has integrated graphics, such that effectively the laptop has two GPUs. Which seems to work quite well.
As regards camera sensors. I am quite happy with my old cameras, but I am also a member of a Camera Club, and what is very clear there, is that there is no such thing as 'one size fits all' when it comes to photography.
Many of the members are doing quite different things with their cameras, and their software. They use different types of cameras, because they need their cameras to be able to do different things.
-We have the landscape specialists, who demand massive numbers of megapixels. For the landscape bods, it is all about resolution.
-We have the wildlife and macro people, they love micro 4/3rds and particularly the OM1.
-The Street Photography people, who use small and unobtrusive cameras. Sometimes they use phones.
-The portrait photographers, many of whom still use DSLRs, on tripods, with heavy flash lighting. Often, they cut out a portrait and paste it onto a background that they have created from other images.
When it comes to layered work, (in Photo Raw), I tend to do things like cut out stained glass windows, so that I can put a view in a window, or blend an art work, such as a glass dragon onto a background, or into rocks on a beach.
I don't use either Photo Shop or Lightroom anymore. But I know from the Camera Club that many of the members have been forced to buy new PCs, because of the move by Adobe to use AI tools. Also, Serif who make Affinity have recently launched AI tools of their own. I will be interested, (when CC reopens), to hear if the Affinity users are suffering from the same issues as the PS and LR users were.
Best wishes
David Price
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Been offline with PC problems and it looks like I have no choice, but to upgrade. I cannot use ON1 because the PC is a bit like that dead parrot - almost.
While looking around at what is on offer I have been advised to choose i7 12th gen 16 core processor running at 3.4-5.4 GHz, yet I note that ON1 are still saying an i5 is OK. I want to get bit ahead of the wave. My specs include an RTX 4070 GPU and 32GB of RAM. Been doing a lot of observing ON1 in Task Mgr lately. GPU power is my main problem I think - and it is very under powered. However, I have only 11GB of available RAM out of 16GB, but use rarely exceeds 8GB. And the GTX 1050Ti GPU does not seem to be working too hard so I am a bit puzzled by the focus on GPUs as a solution.
I will have the new PC working by early next week I hope.
🤞🤞🤞
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Hi Victor
As I understand it Graphics Cards/GPUs are a computer in a box. They are designed to do only a restricted range of operations, (when comparted to a CPU), but they do these sorts of calculations very quickly indeed. Some Universities have built Super Computers out of banks of GPUs, the same has been done by the sort of people who make Crypto Currencies.
You still need a CPU, becuase there are a wide range of computer tasks that GPUs are not good at doing. But, ON1 have taken advantage of the power of GPUs, by recoding large parts of their software into the kind of code that GPUs need. If you want to do AI software, then the power of a GPU becomes almost essential. Your GPU might be barely breaking into a sweat, simply because it is so much more powerful, than your current CPU.
When I watch my Task Manager, I can see that certian tasks in PR are very heavy on the CPU, and that others are very heavy on the GPU. But, the spikes on the GPU's charts are very intense, but quickly over. Where as the CPU seems to be slower.
I hope that you enjoy your new PC.
Best wishes
David Price
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Hi Victor / David
I am also planning a new build PC but with less budget available to spend. I want to limit my total outlay to around £1000GBP. I have already decided that the CPU will be the i5-13600K as I feel that this gives me what I need without going crazy. I'm still using a 6th Gen i7 at the moment and that's coping quite well with all of my graphical focused software so I expect the i5-13600K to be a substantial improvement on this. I did compare the i5 to the i7-13700K which you'd expect to blow it away but there was very little difference so I thought it perhaps better to put the money elsewhere eg motherboard, RAM, GPU. With regards the GPU, again I wonder of the increase in performance is unlimited the more you spend. However, I am not sure that I really need the biggest and the best so I am targeting the Nvidia RTX 4060-Ti which I feel will be more than good enough for my needs. As to RAM, my benchmarks have indicated that with 24GB of RAM, usage when running just On1 tops out at 12GB so I am thinking that 32MB DDR4 is about right. If the motherboard supports DDR5 so much the better. The rest of my decisions eg motherboard, case, PSU, coolers etc will hinge on these components. I am not adverse to buying 2nd hand so I'll be scouring Ebay for parts - there's a shit-load of stuff available as people upgrade their old hardware.
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Dont forget CEX sells used gear that has a 2 year guarantee see here https://uk.webuy.com/
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David Collerton just my 2P's worth but I struggled with previous version with a computer that had a 1050TI GPU, i5 CPU and 16GB ram, I upgraded to a computer with a 2060 6GB GPU, 16GB ram and i7 CPU and it still drags it's feet with On1 2023.5. So after doing some digging and asking questions/advice on this forum I decided to have a look at a Mac Mini M2 512GB drive and 16GB ram as that seems to be the consensuses for running On1 although Rick Sammartino did say he uses a Mac Mini 16GB earlier M1 version.
What I did notice was how long these Macs seem to go on for compared to Windows machines that seem to need an update of some sort every couple years or so.
Yes it means changing over from Windows but I think IMO it will be worth it especially when you can purchase a Mac Mini with the specs that I have done for under £1000 I got mine brand new (well waiting for delivery) for £974 including delivery from an authorised Apple reseller (Deecies Limited).
Again I no it's a jump from being a Windows user, in my case decades but as I say looking into the Mac option it really does look good and seems to run On1 very well.
Sure someone else may jump in and confirm jumping ship from Windows was a good move.
Russ.
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Hi Russ
Thanks for the intel. Can I ask where you felt On1 most struggled on your hardware? For example was it masking, brushing, loading images, applying presets etc? Just curious really. The Mac Mini is certainly not out of the question. Like you I would have to rethink pretty much everything but that's just time.
Be good to hear specifically where your hardware struggled and if it struggled with different parts of the application when you changed from the i5 to the i7.
I hope it's not a pain to ask. Just trying to build up a better picture.
Best wishes
Dave
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I'm running on an M1 mini, 1st gen, 16GB RAM, 2TB SSD ( work with a LOT of software 😁) and I'm enjoying the performance. I've been a Windows user too and in my experience the ROI for a Mac system is much greater than a comparable Windows box.
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Pricing for the standalone product has been announced. As promised, it compares to last year. Applying Scott Davenport's 20% discount code and using a VPN, I'll be paying $63.99USD plus sales tax.
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David in all honesty I found it lagged in the masking, brushing, loading images areas, I did follow advice from this forum and managed to get it running better but not really 100%.
Opening images from Browse to Develop it took some time to render them not minutes but some times 20 seconds or more, when using brushes the lag was ridiculous the cursor was near across the other side of the slider line before On1 caught up so trying to adjust just Whites, Blacks etc was very off putting, don't use presets at all so cannot comment on that, I only do wildlife/birds (mostly birds) so as all shots are very different so would take to much time to make presets.
The other reason I am going over to Mac is the room space, no big tower under foot (in my case 2 of them as I only use one for editing the other for every day use).
The Mac looks to give you a cleaner working space and again when I watch any YouTube videos on working with On1 it's just seems most use a Mac, I asked Jim Nix what he uses and reply was " I have an older Intel-based Macbook Pro with 64GB RAM and an 8GB AMD video card". And On1 seems to work fine when he is showing you something.
Suggest you do what I did go into your nearest Apple shop and just have a look you only need the base unit and again as long as your monitor has a HDMI port your good to go. Russ.
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Just an update on my upgrade. After a futile attempt by a tech to retune my old PC it appeared to be dying; down to one core. Using ON1 was agonising. I pulled the pin and ordered a new PC. However I had to spend a week or more sorting out some bad filing transferred to my new PC, so have not done a lot of ON1 editing yet. The signs are excellent; instant previews while in browse (catalogue seems to be up to date for the first time in 5 years) and very quick loading for an edit. Edits are smooth and I have begun to realise I have better resolution (same Dell monitor). I can better see noise/ grain. Masks are rendered quickly and applying brush modifications are smooth and quick.
The PC Spec is as follows; Intel Core i7 13700K 3.4Ghz 16 core Z690 chipset, GEForce RTX 40470 12GB Vram, 32GB 3200Mhz Ram, 2Tb M.2 SSD, 750W PSU in Corsair Airflow 400D case.
So far so good!
Now I am looking forward to the latest upgrade!
Vic
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So, I had a i5 13600K PC built for £1100 (excluding the monitor) and On1 PR2023.5 is now behaving like a completely different program. Nothing lags, not even when masking, NoNoise / Tacksharp is snappy with no noticeable lag or delays. I have also tested out Topaz Photo Ai, Sharpen Ai and DxO Photolab 7. All work with practically no lag or delays. An edit using Sharpen Ai that took a friend 16mins on his old Mac, took my PC less than 15 seconds to render and 45 seconds to save. To say I'm pleased is an understatement.
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