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Don’t want AI keywords in 2024 install

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45 comments

  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Don't have a user guide yet and don't see an actual option to deactivate, so just a guess, turn off everything in this preferences tab.

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  • Karen McBride

    Ya, I’m a little worried that by the time I get to that tab the process will have started. I have uninstalled my 2023.5 version to get rid of the old database with the AI keywords. I’m also reverting back to a drive for my photos from before the AI keyword screw up last time. Maybe I’ll install 2024 with no photos available, then I can turn Ai keywords off and install the photo drive when that check box is unchecked.
    They really should have a better way to handle keywords. It’s not the first time I have had corrupted keywords and it’s an absolute mess to clean up. It’s also very hard to get good advice on how to do it, even from support.

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  • Gilles Subias

    AI keywords is in my opinion the devil thing; even if I deselect all the options as said Rick (I'm Mac user but same), and also PR 2022-2023, I get all those unwanted keywords, have to delete 1 by 1 all I never made etc etc.

    AI kw sky > blue sky ? > night sky? > sunset sky? > blue ? > sea ? > eyes ? > beach ? > sky moon ? > B&W moon ? > ........

    AI is really as an expansive foam never ending and can control it. 

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  • Karen McBride

    I can confirm that the install for 2024 never asks if you want the AI keywords. I uninstalled ON1 2023.5 and left my photos in place and after 2024 was installed all the AI keywords were there as they had been in 2023.5. This confirms for me that they are in the sidecar files too.
    I am now in the process of uninstalling 2024 so I can try again without any photos on my computer. That’s not going well. Using the App manager to uninstall 2024 caused all sorts of error messages and crash reports. I will reboot and try the install again.

    I agree with Gilles. The AI keywords are enough to make me give up on ON1 and I’ve been a users for 4 years now. There should be a simple way to opt out if they get turned on by accident.

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  • Richard

    Once they’re there, how do we get rid of them? I didn’t think to disable them before trialling PR2024 (I have now, but it’s too late) and they have now infested my version of PR 2023 as well.

    Edit: Correction, it's my version of PR 2022 that has been infested with the keywords from PR 2024 Keyword AI. I don't have PR 2023. 

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  • Karen McBride

    Richard, that is exactly what happened to me. I didn’t know it would carry over to 2023.5. I’ve been working with support for a few weeks but none of their suggestions (delete keywords one by one, or delete the side car files from the affected photo, which is even single photo) aren’t realistic.
    This is what I’m doing;
    1) delete all versions of ON1 from my computer
    2) delete all photos from my computer
    3) install 2024 version
    4) in Preferences uncheck the check box for AI keywords
    5) very weird - AI keywords are still there, even though I have no catalogued photos and no photos I can see in browse!!!
    6) select the first keywords in the list, scroll down, shift select several keywords, right click and delete them

    I’ve stopped at this point because it’s is just bizarre!!!

    First, I don’t understand why the keywords are there in the first place. Where are they coming from?
    Second, when I delete a keyword they just come back. As I’m deleting, the screen is refreshing and adding keywords, I’ve already deleted, back onto the list.

    I’ve turned AI keywords off. It makes no sense. I will submit a ticket and hopefully they can help. This is just ridiculous.

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  • David Ayars

    Another setting that may affect AI Keyword behavior in 2024 PR is seen in this video starting just before the 16-minute mark: https://www.on1.com/videos/photo-raw-2024-a-to-z/

    As demonstrated, you designate a folder on your hard drive to be your PR catalog folder by right-clicking it in Browse and choosing Make Cataloged Folder. This pops a window (which you can see later by clicking instead Catalog Properties) that offers two choices for Keyword AI: Basic, and Honor Preferences. By default this is set to Basic. I'm guessing that since you're disabling Keyword AI in Preferences as discussed above, you probably want to change this default setting to Honor Preferences.

    This doesn't help expunge AI Keywords that have already been set, but at least it may help stop more AI Keywording in the future.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    It still does not work. There is a bug preventing Keyword AI from being disabled.

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  • David Ayars

    I haven't designated a catalog folder, and 2024 PR is not applying Keyword AI to my images it's aware of.

    At the 19:08 mark of the video (https://www.on1.com/videos/photo-raw-2024-a-to-z/) they show you how Keyword AI has attached many keywords to an image of a monkey, and you can see that at least one of them is flat wrong ("bear") and many of them are unhelpful clutter ("color," "dirt," "grass," "rock," etc.,) and Derek and Dan don't even seem to notice this problem.

    This is exactly why I don't want any kind of automated keywording, because undoing the bad keywords just creates more work than doing it the way I want it done in the first place, especially if AI in going to keep adding keywords in after I've cleaned up its mess. Keywords are only helpful if they're accurate and fit the needs of the user to find photos.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    It appears to me that Keyword AI generated keywords are mostly useful for graphic artists and stock photography as the keywords are all very generic. I live in the desert. 99.99% of my photos are of the desert and contain sky but no water. I don't need any of those keywords to find photos of the desert and sky and NO water! 😉

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  • Karen McBride

    I discovered why my keywords kept populating even when I had no photos and a fresh install. It was getting keywords from my cache. When I uninstalled all versions of the ON1 software the cache still existed. Once I deleted the cache I could also delete all my keywords and they didn’t return. I’m now working on restoring my photos and building my catalogue. I won’t know if it is completely successful until that’s done, probably tomorrow. As the photos are scanned into the catalogue the keyword list is rebuilt. When I’m sure I’ve fixed the problem I will report back on the steps I used to do so. Maybe there is a quicker way to do it but my approach was to remove everything including the ON1 software, cache and photos, install ON1, turn the AI keywords off and copy a backup of the photos from BEFORE the AI keyword problem back onto my Mac.  Not easy but well worth it.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    What "cache" did you delete?

    They also get embedded into the sidecar files and are NOT removed from them when the unwanted Keywords are deleted from the program.

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  • Karen McBride

    It was the scratch folder cache I deleted. Yes you are right about the sidecar files. In my detailed instructions I will explain in more detail that the “restoring of photos” has to be from before the AI problems. I have some photos that only exist after the AI keyword problems. I will restore those few folders a few photos at a time to see what AI keywords come with them. I don’t want to report on my progress until I have sorted that step out because it could create a nightmare again for me and I don’t want to set others up to fail. Fingers crossed that just a few keywords will be created and I can manage the deletions ok.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    That did absolutely nothing. The Scratch folder is empty 99.9% of the time and the only time it contains anything is when editing. It holds temporary work space files which gets deleted as soon as the process that needed them finishes. Quit the program and check how much space it occupies — 0 KB.

    Good luck. I haven't decided yet how to go about getting rid of all that trash. That is probably why it was recommended that the beta testers delete all sidecar files for images that were edited during testing. They would be rebuilt when the Catalogs etc were being rebuilt from the release version.

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  • Karen McBride

    Well maybe it was my browser cache. I deleted a cache on the external drive that has my cache folders. I didn’t so many installs and reinstalls I’m not sure exactly what was there but something was on the external cache drive that stopped the problem. Does the browser cache make sense?

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  • Richard

    I'm going through a similar process as Karen altho too early to say how successful it will be as sometimes the keywords seem to re-populate only when you're not looking. To address the sidecar issue, I deleted all of my photos (after backing them up on another drive) and restored them with a Time Machine backup done just before installing PR 2024 the first time. 

    I also un-installed PR 2024 and did as thorough search and destroy mission in the library for anything PR 2024 related. 

    I am re-trialing PR 2024 on a few small test folders. In the Catalogue Properties, I selected Off (it is one of three choices - Off, Basic, Honor Preferences) and in the PR 2024 preferences I have de-selected all the boxes under Keyword AI.

    So far it seems to be behaving with no new keywords other than what it has picked up from PR 2022 which is my current version. So far ............... 

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  • Richard

    Completed cataloguing all my photos on my iMac this morning and (touch wood), setting Catalogue Properties for Keyword AI to "Off" seems to have done the trick. There were no new Keywords (AI or otherwise) added other than those from PR 2022, my current version. 

    Not sure if it helped, but as mentioned above, I had also deselected all the boxes for Keyword AI in the Preferences menu.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Those preferences settings are being ignored by the program right now. Keyword AI will kick off again as soon as you add new photos to your catalogs.

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  • Gilles Subias

    Here a capture screen Mac, ON1 PR2024, old scanned slide, no matter; you can see all the stupid AI keywords added in info panel "Human action- human arm-animal- France-high key-Ille et Vilaine-the person-the sand-the human hand-mammal etc etc"; for me keywords get sense when YOU create them, AI is just stupid and complicate the workflow, spending time deleting all those falled from the AI sky; so time wasting for don't get (and get again) absurd keywords...

    edit: even my capture screen is jpg, 290 Ko, 1000x500 px, I can't upload it here?

     

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  • Gilles Subias

     

    Ok, must send  it apart...

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  • Richard

    "Those preferences settings are being ignored by the program right now. Keyword AI will kick off again as soon as you add new photos to your catalogs."

    I did (add new photos, using both Airdrop and Import from Device (card) and so far, two hours later, no new keywords. The cataloguing progress icon bottom left of the screen says the catalogue, previews and keyword AI are all up to date.The metadata and keywords for individual photos show that the photos have not been scanned for AI Keywords .... and hopefully it will stay like that.

    Not sure what, if anything, I'm doing different from what others are seeing.

    Working on an old 2017 iMac with below spec graphics (2 GB) so my happy world with PR 2024 may well come to a crashing end sooner rather than later but so far it is running smoothly and is faster than PR 2022.

    Edit: For Catalogue Properties, I selected Medium Preview Size for one catalogued folder, Embedded for the other.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    It comes and goes that it’s own discretion. It seems. I see the same thing. I’ll run for two or three days with nothing and then all of a sudden it will start adding a bunch in again.

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  • Karen McBride

    Brian, so are you saying there is no way to stop PR2024 from adding AI keywords to your personal list of keywords even if you have all the check boxes disabled? So far all mine AI keywords are gone but I haven’t imported any new photos yet.

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  • Richard

    Brian, as I look at this more closely, I'm not so sure the 'new' keywords were introduced by Keyword AI. My use of Keywords is pretty inconsistant and I suspect the car and bike keywords were manually input by me many years ago. I have yet to find a single instance of an AI Keyword in the info pane for any of my catalogued photos. 

    I do have a half dozen or so keywords in that I know are not mine, such as Image, high-key, high-contrast and a few more. They seem to be left overs that I didn't catch in the cleanup after the first go-round - in fact, they were deleted but keep coming back. I can't get rid of them but there's only a few (so far), they were there before this round of cataloguing, and they're harmless. They are also unique in not having any photos associated with them when I do a search, unlike my manually input keywords which do provide results in search. And unlike the last go-round, there are so far none of the out in left field keywords such as human arm etc. .... (altho I guess if you're a surgeon or a basketball player, this might actually be a useful).

    Will continue to watch this for a few days, see where it goes ....

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Karen, yes, that is what I am saying. At least for now.

    Richard, consider yourself lucky. 😉 Yes, you delete them but KAI finds new photos it matches to the already deleted keyword so it puts it back in the list. Once KAI finishes they can be deleted semi-permanently until the next go round.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Just found this in the user guide (Page 33/43). You can turn off keywords from the catalog properties. Right click the catalog header to get this option.

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  • Richard

    I did in fact mention this several posts back in this thread (twice actually) but it seems to have gotten lost in the discussion about Preferences. So far it seems to doing the job, no new AI Keywords since I re-installed PR 2024 two days ago. Continuing to monitor to see if my luck holds.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Oh, I missed that. I could have used that info a few times now.

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  • David Ayars

    I suggested the "Honor Preferences" setting back in post #8 in this thread in addition to turning off all the options for AI Keyword at Edit > Preferences, but in post #9, Brian Lawson suggested "Honor Preferences" does not solve the problem long-term.

    I am not getting AI Keywords added to my images, but I have not designated a catalogued folder, so I can't really test the effectiveness of the fix I suggested, because that setting is only designed to work with a catalogued folder.

    I'm not going to designate a catalog folder in PhotoRaw until I'm convinced that either through clarification of others' experiences, or an ON1 patch release that enables easy, clear and effective disabling of Keyword AI, that I will not be getting keywords added by PhotoRaw. I just don't want the hassle of reverting these.

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  • Richard

    David, I cannot speak to the effectiveness or otherwise of the Honor Preferences option or the Keyword AI preference settings. What Rick and I afe saying is that there is another - in my opinion better - option and that is to select Keyword AI to Off in Catalogue Properties. In your post you wrote that there were two options in Catalogue Properties - Basic and Honor Preferences. There is in fact a third option - Off - and that is what I am using and as far I can tell, it has effectively done just that, turned Keyword AI to Off for that catalogued folder.

    Edit: I cannot say for sure but I suspect that when Keyword AI is set to Off in catalogue properties, the Keyword preferences settings are redundant at best. What I can say for sure is that I am seeing no new AI Keywords with the settings I am using now for Catalogue Properties (Keyword AI Off) and I don’t think that that is simply a matter of luck. 

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