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Edit keywords

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20 comments

  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Don't do it!! Be very, very, very careful. I f****d up a bunch of images attempting to do just that. If you select a range of images then the keywords of the first image clicked are displayed. Add a keyword to the list and ALL the images have just the keywords displayed, overwriting any others!

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Gerry is correct, keywords are tricky in On1. I've found that if you select a group, even if they have their own keywords, and add a new one it will work properly. If you were to delete that keyword from the same group then all of the photos will be given whatever keywords that the red one has.

    One suggestion I have is to make your selection and drag them into a temporary album. That way you can get back to them if something messes up. To check the group just set a filter for the keyword while you're in the album, you'll see all of the photos that have the keyword and not the ones that don't, but they'll still be in the album when you turn off the filter for you to fix.

    You might want to take a small group of untagged photos into an album and just experiment to see how it works.

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  • brian little

    Thanks to both for comments.

    I was really hoping to go to ON1 completely, but not being able to manage keywords well means I will still have to do file management by LR.

    BWL

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  • Ian Browne

    "Gerry is correct, keywords are tricky in On1"
    Nearly right Rick; I would say useless in On1!  Sorry team On1 :)
    On1 keywords may be OK for those starting out with this stuff; however those of us who have moved to On1 from Lr with lots of keywords, and likely even more "deleted" k/words, then On1 k/wording is  dramas all round ---  for me anyway. Another drama I have is sending files with keywords to On1 for editing Lr as they often return to Lr as new and/or separate k/word. The On1 team have made a lot of great improvements keywords; but .......... .

    I have always thought Browse/library and editing may be better if separate apps. 

    The better way in On1 would likely be albums; however the more serious and professional way is keywording/tags as they are exported with the image. 

    Having too many keywords and not enough keywords is the biggest drama when keywording files. Sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't story IMO. 

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    I agree Ian, wholeheartedly, but albums? I have spent years building up a hierarchy of keywords in LR. Can you envisage searching through hundreds and hundreds of albums?  

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  • brian little

    Since this was my original post, I will chime in with more information.

    I used On1 as a development/image processing  tool for about a year, and agree it is better than LR.  The tutorials are a big help.  LR remained my cataloguing/management tool with ON1 a "plug-in"

    I have over 100,000 photos in LR, organized into 3 catalogs - Home, Work and "Display", for when people ask me to put photos in local shows.  There are overlaps.

    I added a keyword to each Catalog - "Home", "Work" and "Display', to be able to distinguish where images came from after migrating.  This seemed to work..

    I decided to take the plunge, and migrate to ON1 for management.

    The small catalogs - Work and Display-, both less than 10K images, worked well, as far as I can seen ow,

    Then I migrated the largest Catalog [close to 100K images].. The program was very touchy.  It required three attempts.  The first two ended in aborts, with a message about LR being unable to find a file.  ON1 support was very helpful, letting me know that there could be no missing or "disconnected" files in LR.  [parenthetically, I would note that fixing this - syncing files and resolving conflicts in folders and databases before input is nowhere in the migration documentation. It takes a lot of time.] 

    However, several issues developed with final migration.

    *Not all keywords were imported- I have not compiled a comprehensive list.  Too much trouble yo go through and 80,000+ photos in LR vs oN1 for discrepancies

    *Not all collections were imported.  Some were imported 3 times, even with different numbers of photos.  I would note that if you delete one extra catalog, both may disappear.

    *Some collections were imported multiple times, with different keywords.

    *Most annoying of all, it added a keyword "September 13" to about 80,000 photos in LR, and proceeded to import it. I have no idea where this came from.   This prompted the question on batch keyword processing.

    Thankfully, none of this [except the addition of "September 13" ]seemed to change the LR files.

    So for me, it is back to LR for management.  I amd debating deleting al the "sidecar" files, but that will be for another day.

     

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Be careful about deleting 'ALL' sidecar files, those .on1 files will contain any edits that you've made.

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  • Kevin Pinkerton

    Rick, deleting all sidecar files is a death trap waiting to happen. All of the edits are also stored in the database that is not exportable or moveable to another computer. So you can delete sidecars and then recreate them and by touching the photos, which will cause all of the sidecar files will be properly populated with all of the edits. Maybe.... as long as the database file is not corrupted.

    And this is the gotcha, and certainly not worth the risk unless you have good backups. The master database can get corrupted and you can also erase it if you know which hidden local file to delete. And in fact, ON1 support has even directed me (and at least one other person) to delete the database file to attempt to clear up some other issues. I told them (ON1 support) that they should tell people to rename the database file, not delete it...

    I think by default sidecar files are not enabled when you first install ON1. I think I would have made it enabled by default if I was writing ON1.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    I think you're agreeing with me. I know all of this, that's why I said to be careful when YOU mentioned deleting all sidecars.

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  • Kevin Pinkerton

    I was agreeing with you. I was not part of this thread prior to my comment above. Just wanted to stress the point to the original poster, Brian.

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  • Sean Davey

    Oh geez, this is really discouraging.  I've just spent like 3 days hunkered down, re-keywording images via OnOne, one by one in several collections.  Super tedious, but way nicer to do in OnOne than Photoshop.    Now here's my problem.  Those images which I keyworded in OnOne look ok when viewing in OnOne but don't show up when I upload those images to my site.  The mage on the site shows the old keywords.  What's up with that and is there a way for me to fix this all.  I've also noticed the same thing when I open those images in Photoshop. They show the old keywords, not the new sets that show in OnOne.   This is critical for me now to fix this issue or very begrudgingly go back to PS.   Of Key Importance here is lost productivity if I can't get the new sets to show on my site.  I've shown screen grabs of Photoshop (CS6), My website after uploading images which had just been re-keyworded on OnOne, and OnONe itself where you can see that the keywords are different.   

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Kevin

    Oh, but you addressed it to me, and then I mistakenly refrenced you instead of Brian. I think we're both a little messed up, but yes, good info to know.

     

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  • Sean Davey

    I should add that these specific images are just 900 pixels across Jpegs, not print files as such...

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  • Kevin Pinkerton

    Do you think it could be the web browser, cache or something about the web site? Can you share a URL or open a different browser that would not have the same cache and check you web site? 

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Sean, have you tried imbedding keywords? In the menu under Photo.

    Also wondering if you're setting these tags on the original photo or the exported one. Maybe On1 has a problem propogating keywords to the exported file. Just a thought.

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  • Ian Browne

    Gerry said  -- "Can you envisage searching through hundreds and hundreds of albums?"

    very true Gerry; especial for those with lots of photos; however that would depend on how the albums were set up and perhaps the number of photos.

    I understand we can now add albums inside another album, so in a way I think we could make an album hierarchy or at least sub-albums --- however I have no idea how that will work and I'm not about to test something I'm very unlikely to use .. Perhaps  On1 staff could add more (??)

    This might help those starting out . I'm a happy snapper these days and no longer have any wish to sell photos or even find that one photo "now".
    Firstly; for me the best album or keyword is "delete" lol. Delete the rubbish folks; delete most of the "maybes". As I have often said; do you really need 10 photos of Uncle Tom cuttings his toe nails? Or 100 photos of little Tom with that messy ice cream? We take far too many photos these days ---  keeping them all is like having too much old unused cutlery in the cutlery drawer.   
    One BIG mistake I often feel have made was having too many keywords --- like the one  keyword inside just one/few images !!!  .
    It's not that hard to look through 50, or 100, or 200, or even more photos, to find that one photo. And with too many keywords it becomes harder to remember  what keyword was used in the first place. 

    The most important thing is to add at least generalized keywords; and/or put them in generalized albums as soon as you get the photos on the computer . It's a do it now thing as later is usually never.

    Folders are just big boxes to store all photos. Having the one photo name in more than one folder is a big DO NOT DO THAT !  
    There is lots online explaining organising your photos to suit you -- no point keeping photos if you, or someone else, cannot find them years later.  For what it's worth, I rename my better/keepers pics with YYYYMM ##### and keep them in YYYY MM folders; I still take too many photos; I very seldom use machine gun (burst) mode; and I delete heavily so I will not need more than 99,999 in a year. 

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  • Sean Davey
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    Rick Sammartino
    • Edited
     

    Sean, have you tried embedding keywords? In the menu under Photo.

    Also wondering if you're setting these tags on the original photo or the exported one. Maybe On1 has a problem propogating keywords to the exported file. Just a thought.

    Rick, I was on Safari, I just looked at those uploaded images via Firefox. Still the same old set of keywords, not the new ones. Not sure what you mean exactly about "Embedding keywords in the menu under Photo. Can you elaborate?..

     

    Just to bring you up to speed.  I'm doing this with a set of preview Jpegs at 900 pixels across for my website.

     

     

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Can I elaborate on the 'Embed keywords' function in the photo menu??? Nope, that's as simple as it gets. Since you don't seem aware of it I'm assuming you haven't tried it yet. I can tell you it's on page 45 of the user manual though.

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  • Sean Davey

    Rick, I  checked out page 45.  it looks like what I did already.   So does anyone else have this issue with keywords not exporting after being added to low res Jpeg images in On1?  Is there an easy fix for this or am I going finally to have to subscribe to CC to get my workflow back? I was hoping to leave Adobe behind, but I am seriously rethinking things now.  That and there is no phone support at On1 either.     It's a shame because I've been hoping that someone would really step up and take on Adobe.   One thing does seem apparent to me.   This software as great as it is (and it is) looks like it has some bugs to sort out.   I can't be beta testing something that's not ready for the basics of my workflow.   If this turns out to be a big ordeal, I'll definitely walk away.  I have no choice.  I have to make a living.  The thought of changing programs was daunting enough to start with.   I hope we can find an easy solution to this.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    If you add keywords to a photo and don't see them outside of On1 then you'll need to talk to On1 about it. You'll need to send a service request to see what they say. For me, as far as I can tell keywords work as I expect them to, but mine aren't as eloborate as yours.

     

     

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