White clipping not working.
My white clipping has not worked over the last two updates & is still not working with the latest. The black clipping works fine.
Any ideas?
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Yes. I think I can at least point you in the right direction. I had a similar problem with either or both the black or the white clipping not showing up. I opened a request, and then started my own investigation.
In the end, I discovered that my problem was related to my monitor calibration. It was a learning experience and I am not 100% sure I can tell you how to get your monitor calibrated. But I know for a fact that the calibration method I used caused me to loose the clipping. And when I back tracked and started playing with the calibration process, I fixed it. It was repeatable and now I always go in a check the clipping after a monitor calibration.
If you are not doing any calibration, then it may be that your monitor has aged and something has shifted in it's color. Currently I am using a Spyder5Express device (the cheapest one with the cheapest software). All the Spyder5 USB devices use the same hardware and you are paying for their software when you move up the $$ amount. I installed the default software that came with the cheapest Spyder5, but then I downloaded the free DisplayCal (https://displaycal.net/)
DisplayCal is excellent, but learning how to use it takes a bit of trial and error and reading.
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Ronald, all I can ask is if the problem is the same weather you use the arrows or hit the J key to turn on clipping. But basically the black and white clipping always come on together. If yours aren't I'd let tech support know. Add a detailed description and also what kind of photo files you have. You may want to attach or send one of your files for them to try.
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When I had this problem, I could not drive the whites and/or blacks far enough over to cause clipping. I am pretty sure I experienced it as one or the other would not ever clip no matter how far I pushed the Develop Black or White sliders. I might have been just one end that would not clip. It definitely was not an image problem and any old jpeg photo can be used to test it.
My problem was caused by the Color Profile that I was using for the monitor. This is found under Windows 10 Settings / System / Display
The color profile can cause either end of the clipping to not show itself. The issue has something to do with the black and white levels that the color profile drives the monitor to. ON1 has some internal level that it watches and triggers the clipping to display.
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That's pretty freaky Kevin. I would never in a million years expect anything outside of the program to mess up it's operation and it's not the way that I've understood clipping to work.
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I've experienced in the past the same problem of non-working clipping indicators, and I confirm it was due to monitor calibration (bringing back the old .icc calibration file was indeed solving the problem, re-installing the "new" file was causing again the problem). This well-known bug was subsequently solved by ON1. Unfortunately, from several comments on the forums, it seems it reappeared with the update ?
The workaround is to re-calibrate the monitor, which will eventually solve the problem.
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Once I established the proper parameters in the calibration I have never seen the problem again. But I try and recalibrate my monitor every month or two. A couple of parameters that I seem to remember focusing on where Black point correction and profile type (this is in DisplayCAL). I would be happy to share some screen snapshots of the DisplayCAL settings if it comes to that. Fortunately in DisplayCAL, you can pull up the previous calibration settings and just do a fresh calibration based on them. So I do not have to document anything now (But I have in the past).
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Thanks for the comments folks.
The monitor was calibrated with Spyder 3Pro 4.0.2 by my son. Not being a computer person I will have to ask him to come by, read the above & see if he can fix it.
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Ronald, if he cannot get both white and black clipping to show up after a calibration, let me know and I will put a document together with some screen snapshots and instructions for DisplayCal that should work for you. I have two different monitors and the calibration setup parameters work for both of my monitors. DisplayCal will work with your Spyder 3Pro.
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Thanks again for the help. We recalibrated with the Spyder software, and the white clipping is now working. As a note, we tried DisplayCal, but it didn't recognize the Spyder 3 for what ever reason, so not sure what's up with that. I'd be interested in trying it if anyone has any suggestions on how to get it to work.
Mark Evers (Ron's Son)
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I can help you with that DisplayCal... I have the same problem with it every time it performs an auto update on itself. You have already installed the Spyder 3 driver that comes with the Spyder software. DisplayCal reads that driver data and uses it to populate the Instrument Mode drop down box. Here is the part you probably are missing. You need to install the Argyll/CMS Instrument drivers. See the drop down menu in this next shot. I need to do this everytime DisplayCal updates. And sometimes I have to do it twice, exit the program, and then it sees the Spyder. Notice the Refresh round arrows next to the Spyder 5 in the top right section. You need to do that after you install the Argyll drivers.
You probably want to use the "Show Advanced" as well. See this snapshot:
When you click on the Calibrate & Profile button to start the process, the first thing it does is put up a box and allow you to place your Sypder over it. Then when you click the start button on the box itself, it takes about 30 seconds to query the Spyder itself before things really get started. So watch for that. It tells you what it is doing. Then the second thing it does for me is to check the monitor color settings and luminance. It toggles between RGB colors and gray and tells you what it sees. You can then tweak the local monitor settings to adjust the colors to be correct (hopefully). For the luminance, I use 80 cdm for my ON1 monitor and a much brighter setting for my second monitor. Once you are happy with the local monitor settings, you tell it to stop that part and then you click on a button on the window under the Spyder to start the actual calibration process. My calibration takes around 30 minutes or so, but it has to do with how many samples you want to do. I will include the screen snapshots of each of the important settings that I found to work for my two monitors. It will at least give you a reference point for your calibration. I sort of learned as I went, and some of my settings might be questionable, but they always work every time. The last thing I should point out... The Settings box at the very top of DisplayCal is a drop down list of all of the past calibrations you do. And I always pick the last one for the particular monitor I am calibrating. It will preload the settings based on that calibration. I think there is a way to save settings some other way, but it was rather confusing for me. :)
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When DisplayCal is finished, it tells you how well the monitor covered sRGB and adobe colorspaces. And then it allows you to update the Windows display profile for whatever monitor you are calibrating. One of the things that gets installed when you install DisplayCal is a script that runs continuously and shows itself down in the lower right taskbar (on my Windows 10 anyway). This program monitors the color profile setting and makes sure it is refreshed and kept intact. It is called DisplayCal Profile Loader and looks like this:
When you have the DisplayCal program up and running, this profile loader icon turns gray. Not to worry, it goes back live once you exit DisplayCal.
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Thanks for the info Kevin. This is Mark, Ron's son. I tried the info you gave above and tried it at home. Worked like a charm. Nice to see modern software that's able to use my old hardware. Took about 45 minutes for each monitor. A lot longer then the Spyder software, so I can only assume it's a more accurate calibration. I will have to give it a go on Dad's computer now that I know how to get it up and going. Only thing that stumped me was at the start when you need to get all three colour channels as close to the middle as possible. Couldn't find any controls to do that, so went with a setting that got as close as possible and went with that. Again, thanks for the step by step instructions. Helped a lot.
Mark
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Your welcome Mark. Glad to help. Yes the monitor local tweaking, especially on a monitor with some age on it, may not get real close. Both of my monitors have menu buttons which allow me to adjust the three colors, and the brightness control I use for the luminance. I think I even played with the contrast controls on the monitor as well.
The calibration speed slider on the calibration tab is most likely what is affecting the length of time for the calibration. It seems to me that at one time there was a slider that showed me the number of samples at each slider position, but I could be thinking about another calibration sw package I used. I will say that I had to dig a bit on the DisplayCal web page to figure things out. I spent more time than I wanted to. But I like the control vs the auto mode of the basic calibration software I got with my Spyder. I also paid for an used a product called BasicICColor Display 5. It was very similar to DisplayCal, and after I learned DisplayCal, I ditched that product. I also have an inexpensive colormunki Smile display calibration tool. It also works with DisplayCal. I use the Spyder however.Kevin
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I see that others have been able to solve this problem by loading a profile.
In my case, I've noticed that when I go from Browser to Develop, I occasionally can't get the J key to work. The solution I've found is to click on the image causing it to zoom in. Click again to make it zoom back out. The J key now works. This problem started happening in the most recent update.
I've noticed similar keyboard focus problems after rating a photo in Develop. Again annoying, but easily worked around. My guess is that both problems are caused by the same underlying problem.
Steve
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