Is the xmp sidecar file really necessary, part deux.
Hi,
The ON1 Ideas doesn’t seem to be updated, so I hope there are some Gurus here listening. I really do not like all the sidecar files associated with my raw files: cr2 + .xmp + .on1. For 100 images there are 300 files needed. In Lightroom I backup my raw files and the catalog leaving clean folders containing the raw files. On1 also has a catalog (database) somewhere, so I would like to backup just the images and database. If I need to transfer any images to another computer I could then ask ON1 to create the sidecar files for me (like LR). As for always creating a .xmp sidecar file even when I choose not to create sidecar files, I would like to have the option of NOT creating it, as I can’t think of any reason to export just the metadata to another program like LR or PS, and it just causes conflicts when using LR and ON1 side-by-side. Anyone know what comprises the ON1 database, and where it is?
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Official comment
Hey everyone,
I hope this clarifies any confusion regarding .xmp sidecar files, nondestructive edits, ON1 sidecar files and embedding metadata. However, if you have any other questions, please contact our support team.
First, the "Photo > Embed metadata" function within On1 Browse will write any metadata changes you have made within our application to the actual file on your HD. This is how this feature functions in all programs that have an option to embed the metadata for a file. Please note, by default our program will save all metadata changes within the Photo RAW database or to the sidecar file (if you have enabled this option within the Preferences). I recommend enabling writing to the sidecar file within the ON1 Preferences pane for backup and recovery purposes. Any metadata changes will be saved to the .xmp sidecar file. If you are opening the image in a program that recognizes .xmp sidecar files, you should still the metadata changes that you have made to this file when viewing this image in another application. However, if you need to open the image in a program that does not recognize .xmp sidecar files and want to make sure your metadata changes are in tact, this is where you will want to use the embed metadata feature. After embedding the metadata to a file, these changes are written to the actual file on your computer so you will not need to worry about whether or not the program you are opening the image in recognizes the .xmp information.
Also, you will be able to embed the metadata for multiple images in a single click. Simply highlight all of the images you want to embed metadata for and then click the "Embed metadata" option. This will write the metadata changes to all of the selected images in a few clicks.
Another thing to take into consideration is the addition of full non-destructive editing capabilities to the new Photo RAW. When you are running the Photo RAW as a standalone application, all edits you make within Photo RAW will be saved to the ON1 sidecar file (If you enable the ON1 Preference mentioned earlier). This will dramatically increase your workflow speed when working on an image. All sliders and filters will be applied in real time. You will not need to wait for the program to create a copy of the image when saving or switching between modules of the program. The ON1 sidecar file will contain both your metadata changes and all of the edits you have made in Effects or Develop. However, just like any other photo editing program that utilizes sidecar files, the edits you have made within the Photo RAW and saved to the ON1 sidecar file will only be visible when viewing the image within the Photo RAW application. This is not the same as the .xmp sidecar file. The .xmp only holds metadata changes and is recognizable and readable by other photo editing applications while the ON1 sidecar files are only recognized by our app. Remember, you will always have the ability to export the file and save it to your HD. This will create a new file with the edits you have made in the Photo RAW baked into the new file. This is how our current and legacy versions have always functioned.
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Ok, so what's the problem? Go into Options/Files and turn off sidecars.
Just make sure you know how to back up your PC properly because the only copy of your work will be in a database somewhere on your PC. Currently there is no easy way to back up the On1 database, and yes, we've already complained about it.
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And the ON1 database is not moveable to another computer, even if you isolate the database and it's files. An important thing to know if you move things.
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Thanks for the replies guys, Sorry if I came over a bit strong.
I know I can turn off on1 sidecar files, but on1 still writes an XMP. Not really a deal-breaker, but I should be able to suppress them. Until the definite switch (hopefully v 2019), I am running LR and ON1 side-by-side and the xmp files tend to confuse LR.
Yes, I do make regular back-ups, but a complete system backup every day because I don't know where ON1 stores its stuff is, for me, a bit over ott. When I finally make the definite switch I will just have to go the sidecar route; for the rest ON1 being really excellent. As an ex software developer, I just like to know how things are set up under the bonnet (hood).0 -
Is running them side by side on the same images a good idea?
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When I first started with On1 I was annoyed with the sidecars as well. That's because I had been editing jpg photos inside my gallery and when I was done, they were still inside my gallery and everything was neat and tidy. I eventually realised that when I went to RAW, I didn't have that gallery any more and the exported files were now the gallery. So it doesn't matter if there are sidecars beside the raw files since they are just the source and no one is ever going to see them.
Colin, don't understand the question. Do you mean 2018 and 2019?
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No problem, Colin.
LR changes reside in the LR catalogue, and the ON1 in their database, wherever that is :-) ON1 also states that this is possible. They are both non-destructive. Some images I can't get right in LR and I go to ON1, and visa-versa. High ISO images render much better in LR where the noise reduction is superior, and I think ON1 renders low ISO images better than LR. I hope with v 2019 to ditch LR altogether.
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2019 will be an interesting release, might even pre-order! That said 2018 represented a huge improvement in the end and is running great on my Mac.
Rick, I was alluding to running ON1 and LR side by side on the same file of images. Gerry has put that concern to bed.0 -
Oh, I see. I can agree with everything Gerry said. I have LR6 that I keep around because it pulls detail out of bright areas better than On1. I never noticed that noise reduction was better, I'll have to give that a look.
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It would be nice if On1, like a similar software I know, could place all the .xmp and .on1 files in a separate folder within the folder containing the Raw files.
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Tom, I curious as to why you would need that. Your folder is full of raw files anyway. It's not like you use it to do a slideshow or something.
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I don't need it. But when you open a folder of RAW photos, outside of On1, you see a zillion .on1 files too. Even if the contents are arranged by kind, it looks messy. However, if all the ON1 files were in a subfolder you would never have to see them. It's nice to see software designers think of things like this.
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Sure, but you only see that if you go digging in the folders. If you're using On1 or any other photo software, they will only see the raws. It took me a long time to figure this out, that keeping everything together is the best way to deal with the different files and makes it easier to back everything up.
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Indeed. All the things you say.
I still think it would be nice if the software would place all of its files in a discreet subfolder, nice and tidy like.
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You may have different opinions about the location of the sidecar files, each with their specific pros and cons. If ON1 would offer that flexibility, users could choose what suites them best. No need to argue which opinion is the best.
Currently, you only have the option to combine the sidecar files with your images apparently.
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