Inaccurate colors in On1
Having trouble with the color of my kid's shirts for their soccer team. The shirts are orange and look fine on On1 when browsing with the Fast preview selected. If I do Accurate or choose to develop a photo, the orange shirts turn red. The orange is retained when opening the RAW files directly in Photoshop. I've attached screenshots of both below. The first photo being the accurate color.
Shot with a Canon 70D in sRGB. Lens doesn't make a difference.
Overall there is too much red but the shirts really tell the tale. I thought it may have something to do with the color space On1 uses but I imported into photoshop using the ProPhoto RGB and the results are way more accurate than On1.
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I might be mistaken but On1 uses the color space you choose.
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From what I've read here, On1 imports everything into ProPhoto RGB, giving you the widest color gamut. That still shouldn't cause this dramatic of a color shift I would think. The space I shot the photo in has a much smaller gamut so if anything it would be less vibrant than the ProPhoto RGB.
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I don't think this is going to effect your color, but makes a noticeable difference to the starting point for my photo editing...
If your camera is a tier 1 camera, when you go into Develop, under Tone & Color, you will see a dropdown list for Camera Profile. Try them and see if it gets closer. I seem to have to switch between landscape and portrait, depending on the image. See attached.
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You guys know that you can select the color space in preferences, right?
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The colour space you set on your camera only applies to JPGs - the raw file isn't an image file and contains all the data captured by your sensor, and the colour space isn't applied until you open it in your processing software and save it out as JPG, TIFF etc.
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Hmmm, interesting. The user manual doesn't really explain it and none of my googling pointed this out, however re-reading the user guide with this in mind does make some sense. Thanks Paul.
This would explain why Davids raw(accurate) and jpg(fast) look different, but not why the raw looks wrong. I'm guessing that Photoshop and Photo raw are simply using different raw engines which produce different results and neither one is actually wrong.
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I'd say On1 is wrong since it's so far off from the actual shirt colors.
Kevin, your idea seems to work! Moving the Camera Profile to Camera Standard looks to be way more accurate. I'm new to On1 so never even noticed it. I don't understand why On1 is applying anything to the photo automatically in the Tone and Color options. And why does it default to such a profile that is so far off?
Thanks! This will save me tons of time. It's pretty much impossible to fully correct for the color shift it was applying.
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Glad that works for you David. Some of my cameras do have a Camera version of the profiles and some only have the ON1 profiles. The color profile setting you choose will be saved in a preset, if you wish. But I do not believe there is a way to setup a default that ON1 uses if you do not use a preset. The camera profiles are relatively new and were added in 2018.5 I believe.
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I forgot to mention, that you only see the camera profile dropdown on RAW files, and only on tier one cameras. Jpegs, tiffs, etc do not give you the camera profile dropdown.
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Rick, this is just one of many explaining it:
http://www.photographersadventureclub.com/raw-files-sensor-native-color-space-camera-processing/
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Thanks for the link Paul. It is amazing how hard it is to discover what camera settings actually apply to RAW images and which apply to JPEGS. Nothing in the camera manuals really spells this out. Some of this I discovered by doing my own testing with my cameras.
Not that everything you read on the internet is 100% true, but the article puts to bed a whole lot of things I have often wondered about, and even discussed with others.
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Paul, thanks for the link. very interesting read. There is one section that I'm not sure I understand:
"Post processing software uses a working RGB space. You should configure your post processor for the largest possible working space, which typically is ProPhoto RGB. ProPhoto is the default setting for Lightroom."
This talks about a working RGB space, but I think we've just decided that we have no options for the working space, in On1 the settings are only for output. This is correct isn't it? I'm set to sRGB, if I go to ProPhoto RGB that's going to mess up my exports.
Also, if David is having concerns about On1's built in RAW engine(Tier 1), I wonder if there is a way to make it switch to the default (Tier 2) engine which might match those colors. I don't know what engine Photoshop uses, but I know it's not On1's engine.
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We have no options at the point of capture, but my understanding (and I'm by no means an expert) is that raw processors have to render images into some colour mode in order to display them. As the article states, LR uses Prophoto and I believe PS used to use LAB, though I don't know what it uses now, nor do I know what ON1 uses. We, as you say, specify the output colour mode and/or space. Other than that I can't speculate further.
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