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On1 2019 crashing when zoom is used

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24 comments

  • Peter Pfeiffer

    If you are using catalog folders remove the folders from being catalogued.

    1
  • Mike Hunter

    Are you using more than one monitor on your system?  What graphics card are you using?

    0
  • keith

    Peter: Not quite sure what removing the folders from being catalogued means. I use Lightroom to import the raw photos, catalogue, etc and access them directly from ON1 (i.e., using ON1 as standalone). I've been doing that since the 2017 version & this issue has only started since upgrading to 2019.1. Has something changed in the way ON1 is handling things that would generate this issue?... and if so, wouldn't it be a fairly general issue?

    I'm by no means an 'expert' ON1 user - had it for a while but I'm only just now exploring it as an option for completely getting off Lightroom (which I think is a fine product, I just don't like the company or their move towards subsrcription-based service - and getting a bit concerned as the Lightroom version I'm using (non-subscription) starts to age). I'm reluctant to make any changes that might cause issues in Lightroom until I'm sure of the benefits of moving off it. Is removing the folders from being catalogued a strictly ON1 operation or does it affect the actual file structure?

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  • keith

    Mike: I'm using a single monitor, so that shouldn't be an issue. Graphics card is a Radeon 7350. Nothing is different from what was working in previous versions of ON1. Tech support responded with some instructions for updating the drivers, etc which seemed mainly focused on there being a separate GPU card. I've followed their instructions as much as possible - updated the driver directly from the vendor's site, re-installed ON1, etc.... no joy; ON1 is currently sitting in limbo, with the blue 'loading wheel' merrily revolving & will continue to do so until I close the program in Task Manager. Incidentally, Task Manager shows the program 'Not Responding", of course, but with fairly high and active CPU and Memory usage.

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  • Peter Pfeiffer

    Keith,

    If You've identified a folder structure in On1 remove the entire structure from being catalogued. From user manual pg 25

    Cataloged Folders
    A cataloged folder is a shortcut for your favorite or mostused
    folders of photos. A folder designated as cataloged is
    cached in the background to improve the speed of loading
    those folders (and subfolders) and their photos, making it
    ideal for portfolios, your best photos, or your primary library
    of photos.

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  • Giovanni Fontana

    Same problem as Keith ... and some more. First of all I hope you can understand me despite my bad English. Sorry for this.

    In addition to the problem mentioned by Keith, the program slow down dramatically using masks. I'm a beginner with On1 (bought a few months ago). I tried to define a mask. When using the masking brush cursor moves from 1 to 3 seconds later than mouse moving (really 1 to 3 seconds). Much more better when using Refine brush tool but again slow with chisel mask tool. Impossible to use these tools.

    More ... After defined the mask (with several errors due to the discontinuity of cursor movement) I quit the program, and of course the file is saved with the mask. When I open again this file (with the mask) and I try to edit it, I've to wait from 1 to 2 MINUTES !!! before the file is ready to be edited. On1 works with the blue bar in the right bottom part always blocked at 2/3 and CPU working at 90 - 95%. When finished ... again the same problems mentioned above. At the moment there is not any cataloged folder defined.

    About my hardware: desktop with Intel Core i7 - 7700 CPU 3.6 GHz 16 GB ram, two monitors (necessary for my job, not for On1) and NVIDIA Quadro FX580. I know ... this graphic card is the weakness and I will change it next week. On this machine I've crashes as described by Keith. Impossible to move to masks because it crashes before.

    But I've a 2nd machine: a notebook asus with Intel core it-7700 HQ 2.8 GHz, 8 GB ram, NVIDIA GeForce MX150 (2GB) and on this machine I've all the mentioned problems but not any crash.

    Please, help me to solve the problem. There is probably a my fault somewhere, but I absolutely do not want to go back to adobe (that works perfectly on the desktop and it is not installed on the notebook). On1 seems perfect for me but it must not work in this way.

    Raw Files comes from Nikon D7200.

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  • keith

    Peter:

    Thanks for the suggestion. However, I haven't identified a folder structure within On1, I'm simply browsing/editing files as they are defined by Lightroom. I'm not clear on how the file structure would interfere with the zoom command anyway, and since I didn't have this issue with previous versions, I'm more inclined to think it's a different issue.

    Also, following up on Giovanni's comments, I did some further exploring of On1 functions and have the same performance issues as he describes - slow response times overall, extremely choppy and long response times and crashing when using the mask, etc (in addition to the problem with zoom).

    On1 tech support is now looking at my log file, so they may uncover something. In the meantime, I'm almost ready to abandon any thoughts of using On1 as a replacement to Lightroom.

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  • Mike Hunter

    One thing that I've noticed is that if you have an .onphoto extension that gets large (ie 150+MB), even exiting and restarting does almost nothing, as well as a full restart.  PR also exhibits a strange start on those files, if you try to click on the zoom, mask or other tools, you just get a beep, like its cataloging something, but it looks like it's running through all the edits stored in those large files.

    I'm going to try to take one of my large extension files and see if making a stamped layer and exporting or some sort of jumping through hoops to get rid of the full history on a specific file might help.

    There are too many people with big issues for this not to be an ON1 issue.  I've found that after building a full new PC, that this worked better than the older pc, but still crashes.  So I had much better luck on an i7-8700 3.7Ghz, 16Mb RAM, Geforce GTX 1060 8GB vid mem.  However it just takes a lot longer to crash, so those large files will not even open on the original PC, but could get edited on the new pc.  So, took it a little further and added about 30% cpu through the bios on the asus z370-p board.  And guess what those files worked again for a while.  Did 20 or so, more masking edits to the file, but am back at the same place.  Open the file and it sits for 3-5min. until you can do anything and when you try to mask, it just jumps and makes On1 USELESS! (for my use case) 

    Oh, just to help; build is on Win 10 Pro with all windows updates, as well as all chip set/bios/video card/LAN card ...  In place of building my PC this time, I opted for Microcenter PowerSpec, as they tend to use more off the shelf products, not a perfect solution, but not loaded with all the bloatware.  Point being very clean windows installation.

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  • Peter Pfeiffer

    Keith,

    If you haven't cataloged in On1 then that's certainly not the problem. To answer your question "I'm not clear on how the file structure would interfere with the zoom command"

    I believe 2019 continually refreshes it's cataloged folders.

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  • keith

    Peter:

    Ah, OK, got it. Thanks for the info - Too bad it's not the solution, though ;-).

    I don't know what the general experience is with the latest version, but some of the other comments here suggest pretty strongly that there are issues with 2019. So far, I've had no meaningful input from On1 Tech Support. Hope it gets resolved, though, I was starting to like the product as I got more familiar with it and was beginning to consider a full migration from Lightroom.

    Thanks for your help.

     

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  • keith

    Mike:

    Is this behaviour just since the 2019 upgrade or something you've experienced with previous versions, as well? 

    I agree with your observation that this is most likely an On1 issue - are you pointing to a flaw in the basic software architecture or new design flaws in the latest version?

     

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  • Jim Durfee

    There's a zoom problem with 2019. I didn't have issues with 2018 but in 2019 when I zoom it is basically impossible to do any type of brushing/masking or dragging image around, etc. It's acting exactly like the screwed up choppy crop tool was acting early on in PR2018....

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  • Mike Hunter

    Take a look at this post:

    https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360037415532-Edit-Zoom-slow-or-jumping-Work-around-please-test

    I think the zoom and mask, as well a some of the other issues, could be related to how many edits have been done to a file and directly related to the power of the hardware you are using.

    I know this will not solve all the issues, but it would be nice to know if we are seeing issues with very large history edits.  I'm sure there will be some that have other non related issues

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  • Giovanni Fontana

    Interesting hypothesis that of the queue of edits. I'll try to "purge" the history. In the mean time, in a copy of the photo that gave me the problems of crashes (original photo, with no edit history) I've tried to define mask without using any brushes but just with luminosity criteria and sliders (sorry, first steps for me with masks). Seem it works fine. it's not a lightning fast, but it works. Much more better also in zooming, in closing and opening file. I've tried this only on notebook with 2Gb graphic card, not on desktop because I know that the garphic card is the weakness of that pc. I've some problems also with CAD programs for my job. I'll buy a new card next week.

    Seems to me that issues starts using masks with brushes.

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  • keith

    MIke:

    Interesting. I exported an image as you suggested and voila! the choppiness and the crashing stopped and I seemed to be able to play with the image to my heart's content..... Went back to the original image and On1 crashed again. So.... your hypothesis that it's related to cataloguing in some way is supported. However, the file I used did not have a large number of edits and is only around 35mb, so it doesn't appear that number of edits or file size is the direct cause (at least in this limited case).  I'm not sure what kind of working solution this points to, individually, but it still looks to me like it's a built-in issue with the application.

    Giovanni is talking about a upgrading to a new graphics card, and that may be a good thing to do in itself. But the issue for me is that if On1 2019 has greater hardware requirements than previous versions, that fact should have been revealed before release so we could make an educated choice whether to "upgrade" or not. Their specs indicate that this is not the case and my machine is well within their stated limits. Besides, as you're showing, the issue appears to be related to performance of the software itself.

    All this, and the deafening silence from On1 tech support is really causing concern for me. No hint that they're working on it or even acknowledging an issue. The only meaningful attempts at finding a reason and/or solution are coming from you......Starting to look like the better option is to just bite the bullet and go the Lightroom subscription route, despite On1's paper promise.

     

     

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  • Charles Ragucci

    Agree with the fact that there is complete silence from the ON1 team, no support representative monitoring and or replying to some of these threads with letting us the users know that they are aware that there are serious issues with the software and that they are working to resolve them... 

    ON1 for now, forget about out featuring everyone else out there and get things back on track with 2019.  Are you reading these posts? Who on their team is beta testing these builds prior to releasing to the public?  I will retain my lightroom creative cloud subscription because things are not looking good over here. 

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  • Mike Hunter

    Upgraded graphics card:

    I updated my full PC as well as the card.  Photo RAW was unusable on a 3 year old 4th gen i7 with 24GB of RAM and at the time middle of the road graphics card.  So you can cover up the software problem by getting better hardware.  PR still fails badly at any point, but at least I can attempt to get some work done with the updated hardware and probably should be updating anyway being that I'm relying on it to do complex editing, not just basic word processing.

    I'm guessing that they did not expect this release to eat CPU/GPU cycles, that something has caused this to happen, if they had my guess is that they would have updated their min. requirements. No company want's to release software they know will not run under their current spec.

    On1 Support:

    Most of us are 'early adopters' of Photo RAW, which means we are their best cheer leaders/sales people.  This is true of any product line's early adopters/wild enthusiasm phase of the product life cycle.  That being said we need at least a little communication from someone on the development team.  I've managed multi-million man hour projects and it's hard to balance getting the work done vs. fix a problem and communicating with customers.  In this case we have had complete silence from development and limited communication from support.  I've rolled out software that completely sucks, but the worse the roll out was, I learned that I had to communicate more with the users!

    We have all chosen to use Photo RAW and want to see it be our go to editing software, but we can help in the troubleshooting and testing if someone/anyone at ON1 would let us.  I don't think anyone is looking for every problem to be solved tomorrow, but let us know that you have found a problem and where you are in making it better or completely solving the issue.  I personally have spent 50+ hours troubleshooting the software and would gladly help in any way that I can with testing.  As of right now we don't know if ON1 thinks they have a problem or not.  We don't know if there might be an update in a week or two, or 2 months.  I understand software bugs, but help us help you(ON1).  Give us some guidance.  And for God Sake, stop sending out 2019 future software enhancement plans, I can't even MASK a leaf from a solid background.  If you need to put an actual Beta out for a few of us to test, with some good debug code and logging (maybe this is already being done with some users, but how would we know that?)

    I would love to get this thread to someone in development, as it does start to give some direction of at least one very big problem with the current version.  Fixing this would probably go a long way to allow us to actually use the software and test some of the newest features.

    If there is anything that I can do don't hesitate to contact me.

    Thanks for reading this whole email

    Mike

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Kieth, please don't confuse what Mike is discussing with catalogs. The onphoto file has nothing to do with catalogs. Catalogs are a problem too, but it is already difficult to keep track of details in this forum without unrelated problems being confused with each other.

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  • keith

    Got it, Rick.... at this point I'm just wanting the bloody application to work at the most basic level, so I'm not much concerned about distinctions between files, folders, catalogues, editing activity levels or anything else. If On1 finds a solution, then I'll take the time, otherwise, why bother? 

    I've done 30 years in corporate IT, and even though most of it was in project management and strategy, I have enough understanding of development life cycle to understand that new software application releases often have some degree of 'buggy-ness'  that needs to be worked out.... but I also recognize the differences between an unanticipated, minor bug and poor testing, quality control and post-release support that indicate serious systemic issues. I very much like the promised functionality and features of On1 and as I became more familiar with the interface (& overcame the Lightroom bias) I was looking forward to using it as my main editor. I even took the (for me) unprecedented step of printing out the 170-page manual and started going through it page-by-page. Now I'm not so sure it's a viable product. 

    Mike Hunter's comments in this thread have been enlightening, both in providing clues and suggestions regarding causes and, in his most recent one, giving some more insight into On1's customer support and product development historical approach. I feel like I'm repeating a theme here, but I'm not really interested in switching from one a***hole company to another.... Adobe at least has the advantage of providing relatively stable products, even if the delivery model sucks. Unlike Mike (and I'm assuming some of the others who have been commenting here), I'm not yet heavily invested in this product, so the amount of time and effort I want to spend taking on an application recovery analyst's role is not high. I would just like the application to actually work.   

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  • Mike Hunter

    Keith,

    I agree with you, I've used ON1 as a plug-in to Lightroom since I think Photo 10 (or probably before), plus many other companies.  I'm OK in Photoshop, but got spoiled by Lightroom's non-destructive editing, without all the advanced thought needed with Photoshop.  I still use a number of pieces of software and plug-in's, but as of now am being pushed back toward my Lightroom solution.

    I originally was working with a couple of people in a local photo club of about 150 members, but many did not have the software experience to really use Photoshop, so thought PR would be something they could all use, so was thinking that 2019, was nice but had a few bugs, so .1 would fix most of those and I could demo for the club to possibly start a sub-group of PR users.  Well as of now that went down in flames, especially since I can't even get anyone to address the elephant in the room, of we (ON1) have some issues we are working hard to address and here is how we plan on doing it.

    One big mistake (and I did almost the same thing on a project a few years ago), was they release the update near the holidays, that sounds on the surface like a great idea, but you forget that most of your staff has build up a huge amount of vacation and you are running on a small crew.  Then throw in the, Beta release software rollout, and we are where we are.  Many of us have gotten very frustrated, over the past couple of weeks.  I just hope they are back to full staff by Monday and can at least give us some type of status or even a patch to improve some of the bugs.

    Here is one more issue, I went looking for some type of contact number, person to offer to QA any of the updates.  I could not find one contact, except the support page, which so far has gotten me no where.  Even went so far as to see if I could maybe pass a request through Matt K. or Henry, as they probably have direct email numbers to have someone look at this thread.  Had zero luck!  So leaving this on the bright side, I got a brand new computer!!!

    Mike 

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  • keith

    My final posting on this issue:

     

    After supplying On1 with the log file they requested, I got the following reply: 

    James (on1)

    Jan 7, 16:23 PST

    Hello Keith, 

    I apologize for the miscommunication and for the delay in response. Can you please include your click by click steps to reproduce the crash and the following information from your Event Viewer Log following a crash in your reply?  This will provide is with critical information as to what .dll or file is causing the program failure. Please refer to the attached screenshots and include the information below in your response:

    1. Open the Event Viewer: 

    Windows 7 Event Viewer:
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc766401(v=ws.11).aspx

    How to access Event Viewer on Windows 8 and 10:

    http://www.dummies.com/computers/operating-systems/windows-10/how-to-use-event-viewer-in-windows-10/

    2. Look under Windows > Application

    event viewer.PNG

    3. Make Sure you are sorting by date/time. Look for a red Error! line. 

    ev2.PNG

    4. Double click on the Error line to open the details. 

    ev3.PNG

    5. What you want to focus on in here is the “Faulting module name” for example in the picture it shows Qtcore.dll but your system will show a different file. 

    Also look at the Faulting module path.

    What is the faulting module name? What is the faulting module path?  


    James 
    QA & Technical Support Manager

    www.on1.com/support

     

    Attachment(s)
    ev3.PNG
    ev2.PNG
    event viewer.PNG

     

    To which I answered (unfortunately, displaying my frustration, I'm afraid):

    keith@keithrodd.com

    Jan 7, 18:13 PST

    James:

    You do understand that this is consumer-grade software, right?.... If you were addressing an IT audience, then maybe having them rummage through event logs, etc., might be appropriate, but not for an application that's likely to be used by people not particularly conversant with what's below the sheets in Windows.

    The previous response from ON1 Support requested the PR log.txt file, which I provided. Both of your requests appear to be based on previous editions of the software (or at least your documentation is not up to date with the current release) and one-off remedies. This is an issue that only started with the "upgrade" to 2019.1. I've also posted this problem on the ON1 user forum and the responses are making it clear that this issue is widespread enough that it's not just my installation that's involved. It's starting to feel like you guys are just shooting in the dark. Are you folks (i.e., support desk) in any active communication with the application development team & whatever post-release assessments they might be developing? Does anyone on your end actually monitor the user forum for clues re: recurring or common problems? Is there any venue provided by ON1 to capture comments, issues, complaints, suggestions, etc in a common place where trends can be detected?. I'm convinced that this is an issue with your current software release, not just my installation. Unless you're gathering this requested information from a large number of users to look for and remedy issues with the new release, this doesn't seem like a very fruitful process.

    All that being said, I've attached sreenshots of the information that came up - as you can see, it doesn't match what you indicated should be shown - but there might be a clue in that the application is simply stopping communicate with Windows".

    At any rate, I'm hoping you can solve this soon - I'm already starting to 'pack up' and head back to Lightroom.

    Thanks.

     

    I anticipated that the next request might be to provide bios and memory dumps - properly annotated, of course, to indicate faulty I/O code and corrupted memory sectors.... But no, they provided the following final "solution" (sic) instead:

     
    --------- Original Message ---------
    Subject: [on1] Re: ON1 Support Request
    From: "Stevie (on1 Support)" <support@on1help.zendesk.com>
    Date: 1/8/19 2:10 pm
    To: "keith@keithrodd.com" <keith@keithrodd.com>

    Stevie (on1)

    Jan 8, 11:10 PST

    Hello,

    Looking over your logs your legacy video card is most likely the root cause of the issues you are experiencing. 
    Unfortunately we do not have any further solutions for you other than to replace the video card as drivers appear to be 3-4 years out of date.

    We can issue a refund for your purchase if you would prefer.

    Let us know if you need further assistance. Thanks for choosing and using ON1 Software!

    Stevie | Tech Support & QA Engineer

    And... my last reply:

     
    This is an extremely disappointing and unsatisfactory "resolution" of the issue.
     
    In the first place, this application was working fine until the latest upgrade to 2019.1. If this version has different hardware requirements than the previous version, that fact should have been made known prior to release so that a more informed decision regarding upgrade could have been made. My configuration is within the published specs.
     
    Secondly, as I've already said, I'm not the only one experiencing this issue since the last upgrade - all indications are that there's an unresolved issue with ON1 2019. - another indication that this issue is not specific to my hardware.
     
    Third, given that this application is now unusable for me your closing statement of gratitude for "choosing and using ON1 software" is gratuitous, cynical and somewhat insulting.
     
    I was actively migrating to ON1 from Lightroom when this fiasco started. You might understand that, since working software provided by a company that actually provides support is a preferable option, that process has stopped. Adobe does not provide stellar customer support, but at least the software works.
     
    If you can provide no escalation procedures (I'm assuming this is the case given you "do not have any further solutions"), then please arrange the promised refund as soon as possible. In the meantime, I will be searching out public forums on which to the level of service being provided and looking for viable alternatives to your product.
     
    Thanks.

     

    So.... I think I'm done with On1. I have no faith that they can help solve my problem and only faint hope that I'll actually see the promised refund.

    Does anyone have suggestions for viable alternative photo editors - recognizing that Lightroom may still be necessary for cataloguing, etc. ?

     

     

     

     

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  • Kevin Gagel

    I too have been having this problem since the upgrade to 2019.1. I opened a ticket with support and got this response.

    ---Paste---

    Hello,

    We are currently investigating the issue you have reported.
    Unfortunately I do not have an immediate fix.

    I have linked your support ticket to our open bug ticket. We will be back in contact with you if we need any additional information.

    This is a post from Nvidia support regarding the error:

    https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3633/~/opengl-

    If we have any update or test build with a potential fix, we will let you know.

    Thanks for your patience while we continue to investigate.

    Let us know if you need further assistance. Thanks for choosing and using ON1 Software!

    Stevie | Tech Support & QA Engineer

    ---End Paste---

     

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  • Charles Ragucci

    The response I got in my ticket was to upgrade my graphics card.  That was it!!!

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