Performance issues since early windows updates in 2019 and ON1 update to version 2019.1
I recognized very poor performance with ON1 2019.1 and extremely high CPU load on my laptop with two graphic cards inside, an Intel 4700 HQ and a 4GB GeForce GTX 850M, both on motherboard.
My notbook: Asus i7-4700HQ, 16GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 4GB GeForce GTX 850M
Solutions:
First step was, to uninstall some actual window patches. It seems, that ON1 works better, but not quit good as before. And, the updates are back, after some time of running.
Second step: i found this article:
After the GPU-configurations (Manage 3D Settings) from this article, i could observing, ON1 now uses the Nvidea GPU in photo processes, but zooming and moving within a photo, blocked the notebook for minutes.
Next step: i added the following programs, found in the windows ON1 folder, to use the Nvidea GPU too (via Manage 3D Settings):
on1capture.exe and on1sandbox.exe
After a fresh restart from ON1, almost of the full performance is back. Zooming and moving is still fast working. It seems, that there is more program code, that do not uses the Nvidea GPU and instead, the normal CPU or lame Intel GPU
Hope this experience helps ON1 windows users.
Greeting Michael
-
additional information:
please check, whether vcredist_x64.exe in the photo raw 2019 installation folder under program files is another candidate to configure for explicit nvidia GPU usage. I don't know anything about of the behavior and usage from vcredist_x64.exe while executing ON1.
Michael
0 -
Michael- I added capture and sandbox to the dedicated GPU config. I think you may have something here. It seems to make a significant difference to 2019.1
0 -
I have a very nice gaming computer with only one video card in it. An NVidia GeForce 1080 GPU with 8MB of memory. So everything on my computer uses the GPU. I have a i7-8700K with 32 GB of system memory. I have two nVME hard drive, one for Windows and ON1 and one for my photo in my catalog. nVME drive are way, way faster than SSD drives. I have told my AVG to ignore my ON1 appdata directory structure and all of the other scratch, temp and photo directories that PR uses, so my antivirus is not sitting in between ON1 and what ON1 needs to touch.
In my opinion, ON1 PR 2019 acts like it is running on an 8088 intel processor as compared to everything else on my computer. That means it is running like a track star running in 12" deep mud. PR 2017 was much better, 2018 was better and it just seems to be going in the wrong direction as far as performance goes.
I am just an amateur photographer and am not under a deadline or time crunch. So I do not really care at this point and I love what PR gives me. But if I was a professional, depending on PR to get me thru the workload, I am sure I would be using something else.
Personally, I think that ON1 software designers made a mistake somewhere early on in their base-line design and now they are paying the price. If this is the case, the cost of redoing the baseline underlying structure would be a deadly blow to the users and the ON1 software team in cost and time involved. If my assumption is anywhere near the truth, then ultimately as they upgrade PR in the future, it will eventually self implode.
I hope I am not correct and that there is just a couple of deep snags that are causing these performance issues and that they can do a "Holy Cow, look what I found!" moment.
BTW, I have done some testing with dedicating one or more of my 6 cores in the i7-8700 to PR and my observation was that that did nothing. The finger was pointing to PR beating the heck out of the hard drive and even the nVME drives could not stand up to it.
0 -
+1 to what K. Pinkerton says.
On1 is continuously and non strop writing and rewriting the same files over and over and over and over. Turning AV off simply speeds up the excessive writes by reducing the overhead of the writes. The real fix is for On1 to not excessively write/rewrite.
If your On1 database files are on an SSD like mine are, then those excessive writes are killing the usable lifetime of the SSD. Not good.
0 -
If you delete the catalog, you might help with the beating to death of the hard drive. I tried that with the previous initial release of 2019. My machine would lock up for several minutes. I mean lock up like it had crashed and was trying to reboot, and then come back to life.
But deleteing the catalog is a fix at best and you loose that functionality0 -
BTW, you can use PR to remove directories from the catalog until it is empty or if you do not trust it, you can simply delete the following directory. Or rename it to something else.
PR will recreate it as a virgin catalog if it is missing when it starts up.
C:\Users\"your user name"\AppData\Roaming\ON1\ON1 Photo RAW 2019\ExploreService
0 -
I want to thank you guys for this info!
A couple of things I have noticed is that GPU usage wasn't much even though I pointed ON1 to my Nvidia card (low end card but within recommended range - 2 Gb memory) - I have the sandbox and capture programs directed to the card as well now. And I also noticed that whenever my ON1 was being used so was Windows Defender to the tune of around 20% CPU power; I now excluded ON1 files both in Windows Programs and Roaming ... I never thought of excluding it and ON1 has a little more headroom.
Some things to consider - maybe using just a "Favorite" folder to catalog will keep ON1 from constantly rewriting to itself although the best solution is for it to intelligently know when something was written to the folder. Being an old DOS/Windows person I tend to date and name my file folders but do like the convenience of the catalog at times. ON1 uses all the cores for processing along with the GPU. I am running an older 4 core I5 processor and it definitely uses all 4 cores when working; I specifically asked the ON1 people and they are making this use all available cores. So with that said keeping all the cores processing ON1 would be the way to go. Memory usage is low considering the use of all cores, I think I have seen ON1 use at most 8 Gb but that was with cataloging and photo manipulation ... typically it hovers around 2 Gb even with cataloging "on".
With an older computer and a low end graphics card I do get bottlenecks at times. I imagined that a faster processor and more cores/memory that the bottlenecks would be few but obviously that's not the case. Hopefully these tweaks that you have found improve the performance. I'm keeping an eye out on Task Manager as I do photos and at least tonight there has been some improvement!
0 -
I discovered something today that seemed to help. Whenever things froze for a few seconds I noticed in task manager that Windows was running Bonjour. Disabled it and the freezing stopped.
0 -
Update released today has solved slowdown and freezing issues for me. Only bug left now is the loss of sharpness when rotating a photo to straighten it.
0 -
I am impressed. The catalog issues, at least with the beating to death of the hard drive with the catalog seems to be gone. And the constant CPU usage sitting above 10% with PR is also gone. I added in my directories back into the catalog and it completed a ton of files in maybe a minute or two. What?? Yes. And I edited an existing raw file that was edited and the drive activity went up for a few seconds and then dropped to nothing. I suspect they fixed the catalog issue. And I did a 25Mpixel export in real time and it was very fast. They fixed all but one of the Nikon Z 6 raw image conversion, but it was a 12-bit one and I do not use it. I will clear out the AVG exception list and see if things still hold up.
0 -
Wow. I am more impressed. I cannot believe how fast the catalog was built. Almost unreal. And I did remove the exclusions of all of the directories tied into PR that I put in place in my Anti-virus and my anti-malware. As I suspected, nothing changed in CPU or Drive access resources. So I do not need the exclusions anymore. And I did a quick and dirty AI mask. Amazing too.
They filled in the pot holes. Woohoo.0 -
Did you use On1’s clean uninstall too before installing 2019.3? Or did you just use the install 2019?
0 -
I installed from scratch. Used the utility they have to remove everything. Ran CCleaner to clean up files and the registry. Then reinstalled 2019.2 - not sure if all that was needed, but figured it couldn't hurt.
Kevin, I'm very glad to hear your report.
0 -
Not as lucky as Kevin with the cataloging of files. CPU usage was 98-100% with catalog on and about 15% with catalog off. I think I'm keeping it off!
0 -
Vinny,
Since my post, it seems that ON1 sneaks in more cataloging when things are not real busy. You might want to try letting 2019.2 run overnight with a clean, new catalog and see if it clears itself up. I am watching mine under the task manager and seeing the CPU go up and the C: drive go up (and down). This is without the antivirus exclusions of ON1 directories.
I am going to let mine run overnight. There is a program called process hacker that will show you what files are being access and by whom. It is also running to I can see how much PR is reading and writing and how big the reads and writes are.
0 -
The speed up with the new 2019.2 update is incredible!
The processing of photos looks now like a running Speedy Gonzales! Even retouching works well. These software engineers have done a great work!
But the behavior of building a new catalog folder looks quit bad. I tried it out with a simple folder and four sub folders with about 1900 olympus raw files. Each files has a size of about 16 MBytes. The i7 CPU load is now for more than 60 minutes about 60% and the CPU cooler is screaming and running as fast as he can. I do not want to know, what is happens, when i catalog more than 100000 photos ... i will don't try it out ...
There is a lot of writing activity for hundreds of .ldb files in the
AppData\Roaming\ON1\ON1 Photo RAW 2019\NDService\Core
folder.
After manual stopping the catalog process, the CPU load stabilizes and even the writing of the hundreds .lbs files are stopping too.
Thanks for the actual and coming improvements
greetings Michael
0 -
I think I am going to have to retract my comment about how great the catalog is now working. I too see hundreds of /ldb files in the same folder as Michael, being accessed. I left 2019.2 running overnight and this morning, my machine was locked up. ??? I will not blame it on PR, but I am very, very suspect. Perhaps a memory leak. I will try it again, leaving PR running, after I get my backups completed.
0 -
@Kevin,
It's interesting that you say you have a problem with a 12-bit Z6 file because I've had a support ticket logged for months now about issues with 12-bit support for my old D610, which it only supports using the Tier 2 RAW engine whih is brutally slow. I was hoping the .2 update would fix my issue but alas, it still exists. Is this the same issue you're having with the Z6?
I will say that although PR still sucks up tons of cpu and ram when it hits those 12-bit files, at least it doesn't lock up the machine. I can still switch tasks and use other apps (slowly) at least which is a huge improvement.
0 -
@Peter,
No that is not the same issue. 12-bit Lossless compressed, 12-bit compressed work and display fine. If I edit them, I get the Camera Profile dropdown box in Develop Tone & Color. I think that dropdown box means PR is using Tier 1 RAW engines. What does not work is 12-bit uncompressed. It looks to me like PR is not using the correct offset to start interpreting the image. The color is whacked out and there is diagonal and vertical banding. Here is what I see in Browse and develop. The clear image of a quilt is what is should look like. The purple image is the 12-bit uncompressed.
0 -
OK, so apparently the cataloging is beating the heck out of my hard drive. In particular the same database-type files that Michael Brodersen pointed to. I am very leary at this point, so I removed all of the directories out of the catalog and now it is empty and there is NO disk activity when PR is just sitting there. I will put a small directory back in the catalog and see if PR every settles down. I do not want to kill my nVME drive by eating up the life cycles.
Other than that, PR idles down to a nice low CPU usage without the catalog database in the picture.
0 -
Kevin - too bad the user can't specify location of catalog files like we can with the cache and scratch folders. Would be nice to move it to a spinner. That said, My photo library is about 35K files. I decided to try to catalog my photo library yesterday. It only took about 3 hours for it to build and I was able to work in On1 while the catalog was building. I left PR2019.2 running all night and no issues this morning when I came back to the computer. Based on the info above I just loooked at my AppData\Roaming\ON1\ON1 Photo RAW 2019\NDService\Core folder. It only has 53 files. The ..ldb files do seem to update about once every minute. My C drive is an SSD drive but I think I will leave the catalog for now as it does seem to help some moving through images etc.and with 2019.2 it doesn't seem to impact the performance while editing ( at least for me ) I will just be sure to shut PR2019 down when I am not using it.
0 -
Kevin Pinkerton, an interesting read on SSD life. Some key points on read/write cycles and SSD life at the end of the article.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2043634/how-to-stretch-the-life-of-your-ssd-storage.html
0 -
David, I don't know how PC savy you are, but there is a possible solution that's been mentioned here a couple of times. I'm not aware that anyone has actually tried it.
https://bitsum.com/portfolio/junctionmaster/
I'm using Process Lasso from the same people to tame On1s catalogs on my PC.
0 -
Rick, Thanks that looks interesting but probably won't try it. For me the writes to my SSD are not an issue and PR2019.2 is running so well I don't wan't to risk breaking something :-) Others may wan't to try it though.
0 -
I am back using a catalog. Using the Task Manager and the Resource Monitor (Windows), I have been redoing my catalog today. I see things ramp up in the Disk I/O and then calm down again when I move around in the catalog. I saw a lot of initial CPU consumption when I added the directories back into the catalog. But that was only for perhaps 3 to 4 minutes. It does seem that PR is now building the catalog and whatever else it needs to do, in the background. My ON1 PR CPU consumption when I am just sitting there in Browse is like 3%. Much better than the 12 to 13% it was doing in 2019.1.
Anyway, I think I will leave the catalog implemented for now under 2019.2
0 -
Kevin,
Honestly I am very concerned about the CPU usage when cataloging. I can leave ON1 on overnight but it seems that once you turn ON1 off/on again the cataloging starts up in full force. Pretty stupid of me but I recently put in a SSD drive as a storage drive to replace my 8 YO original HD; I was not thinking about the cataloging that ON1 does. I did delete the catalog yesterday and then reintroduced it and it was going for quite a long time (1/2 hour) and the main circle (all the way up on the top where the mail directory is) had said it was only 32% done. Some of the file folders were stuck on 98% done. It could be my older processor or it could be a glitch or a combo of both. If I ran ON1 without the cataloging then it ran pretty snappy but with it cataloging there was a definite lag at times.
I don't keyword photos and I label my file folders by date and event so a little easy to find photos. I probably need to make just 1 folder of photos that I want to print or submit to my photo club. Having my CPU running at 6-12% idling with RAW open is much better then 75 or more percent while it catalogs photos.. I also don't like the idea of having programs monitoring programs to stop unwanted activity ... gets too complicated when glitches happen; Task Manager and Resource Manager are one thing but outside programs are another.Like I said originally, I appreciate the tips that were given as it has freed up some of my resources.
0 -
Vinny,
I suspect that your older machine is making the catalog building take longer than you like. I used a Intel i5 notebook for the first year or so of ON1 and it was horribly slow at cataloging even back then. I work pretty much like you do as far as what you talk about in your second paragraph. I don't do keywords and I use the date and a long sentence for the directory I download my photos into. So I may end up removing my catalogs if I get annoyed.
I also agree with the add-on limiting software and I think that is just a band-aid at best. When 2019 initial release came out, my machine would lock up for 3 or more minutes at a time because of what ON1 was doing with the catalog. And it was truly locked up. The monitors would go black and then it would just come back alive.
0 -
I've had On1 running all day while I was out. When i look at it now the catalogs are still running. I haven't changed anything there for days, there is nothing to update, yet it continues.
Vinny, all that stuff with the lockups and blank screens happened to me too and I also wasn't able to switch to another program while On1 was running, that's why I gave Process Lasso a try. It's pretty much fixed those problems for me, at least for now until On1 figures out how to make Photo raw so that I don't need it.
0 -
Interesting conversation about cataloging, The cataloging of my 35K files completed in about 3-4 hrs and I used On1 during some of that time. The only odd thing I notice is the frequent update of the .ldb file as noted earlier which is not an issue for me. Right now using a catalog does not seem to be an issue on my machine.
Running Win 10 on a several year old I5 processor w 24GB ram.
0 -
Kevin, I agree that my processor and memory is slowish compared to today's machines and what's required to run programs or do tasks. I can live without cataloging and RAW 2019.2 seems to be working great except for that. For me it's a hobby and not my livelihood so I can take a few minutes trying to find a photo if need be.
Rick, I have never really had an issue with total lock up unless I ran out of memory which happened once on a large photo file using 10 or more layers and that was in RAW 2018. I have files from a 12 Mpix camera and 24 Mpix camera and I have been purposely trying to play around with the larger files and so far with all my tweaking mentioned my CPU has hit max about 75% and today I have noticed that memory usage went to 5 Gb.. I have had issues in the past with 3rd party software like Comdo firewall and an antivirus program which is why I try and not use any program that runs all the time in the background; again I probably can contribute it to the age of my machine. But I certainly understand why you are using a program to contain ON1 because of the lockups. I was thinking about trying that program if my tweaks didn't work.
0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
41 comments