Slow performance on a new, high end Win10 desktop build
I saw that there are several related threads on here but the discussions were all over the board. I didn't want to add to the noise so figured it made more sense to just open up a new thread that was specific to my issues.
I've been running ON1 PR for several years on a very high end ASUS ROG laptop. ON1's performance on that machine has always been "disappointing", to be kind. As many here have noted, ON1 Support isn't much help with these sorts of issues and my take is that they probably don't know much about Microsoft internals or ON1 code even. I am definitely not a Microsoft guy having spent the past many decades as a *NIX systems engineer. I do know more about MS than most MCSEs (which isn't saying much...). Reading these threads it's obvious that there are a few very high powered Microsoft experts in this forum. I'm hoping to benefit from their wisdom.
After several years of pain trying to get ON1 to perform at least marginally as well as Lightroom, I decided to just go ahead and build a new desktop that will be totally dedicated to post processing work. It's currently running an ASRock Z370M Pro4 mobo, 32 GB RAM (soon to go to 64GB), an Intel I7-8700K 6-core CPU and a 1 TB Samsung EVO SSD. Running Win10 Pro (currently not activated). Nothing is overclocked at this time and this machine certainly has enough juice to run some pretty intense software. Currently running OTB graphics although I do plan to install a 1060 Video card soon.
Did a clean ON1 install and was VERY disappointed that this machines performance is even worse than what I'm getting from my laptop.
Most obvious problems are that the sliders respond extremely slowly like I have a mouse lag problem or something. But for everything else non-ON1-related, the mouse response is very snappy.
If I hover over an effect it takes a VERY long time for the GUI to actually "see" the selection and render the changes to the image on the screen. Just switching from develop to browse takes quite a while.
I'm not using catalogs, BTW. I have my RAW images on an external USB 3.0 HDD but I've also tried processing RAW files that were on the SSD so I don't think it's related to USB speed.
Also, late in the life of PR 2018 I had a problem where I would export an image and when it came up in explorer, NONE of the develop or effects adjustments were in the finished displayed jpg image.... just my watermark. This problem "went away" after a few days.... well, it's back on the new machine running the latest version of PR 2019.2. The laptop, running the same version of PR 2019 does not (currently) have this problem.
The workaround for the above problem is to go into the browse module and do the export from there. These symptoms are 100% repeatable. I sent all kinds of info, samples, log files and so on to support and they pretty much gave me the "it will be fixed in the next release" runaround.
As I said, I am not a MS guy but I am, after all, a well seasoned systems engineer. I do know my way around under the hood and so far I don't see any Windows-side issues that could be causing any of this. ON1 PR is using about 4 GB RAM and around 10-20% of the total CPU power. I don't think ON1 has done much in the area of multithreading so I don't know that 6 cores versus the quad core in my laptop is getting me much. Sysinternals process explorer indicates that there isn't much ON1 distributed processing going on.
So if there is anything I can do on my end to get this sorted out I'd very much appreciate knowledgeable advice.
I received no errors when installing ON1. The registry seems fine. Memtest ran fine and I really beat the machine HARD running benchmarks (without any issues) before installing ON1. And as I said, there is nothing running on this box other than ON1 and a couple of systems/process monitoring tools. Yes, of course a $500 video card will help and I'll be doing that. But this is a lot more than just an on-board versus PCI video card issue.
Many thanks to all in advance!
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I also got kicked out of ON1's photo group on Facebook because I complained about the issue, twice. So, in someway, this company isn't all that transparent. I got support to finally admit to this issue after many many emails.
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Vinny Giannino: I have avoided responding to your comments because I don't want to come off as disrespectful but it's obvious, based on your own comments, that you are not a Pro or Prosumer Photographer and that you are only using a tiny subset of ON1's feature set. If your metric for acceptable performance is how fast a cloning operation takes, you are operating on a completely different plane than many of the rest who are contributing to this thread.
I bring this to your attention because ON1 makes quite a point of the "fact" that they have lots of customers (like you) who think the software runs blazingly fast. There are also several shills who regularly post on these forums stating things like, "I'm not seeing any problems with ON1PR at all!". The reason why I went with ON1 instead of CapOne was because I believed these stories and because ON1 is a local company and I prefer to support local businesses.
And for the record, no, I don't consider writing a program in basic 40 years ago in High School that prints "hello world" on the computer screen to be "programming". Further, you should consider that 2 GB is an insanely tiny amount of RAM. I have a 12 year old WinXP machine running 2GB RAM and it is barely useful as an e-mail client!
Folks here are not being "picky" as previously suggested. It's rather insulting to read thing like this. My expectation of any commercial grade software is that crashes/hangs are *RARE* occurrences and that software response is snappy.... no latency in any mouse-oriented operation, for example. As I noted, performance when exporting, doing panos and other batch type operations is less important to me compared to having them execute correctly. I mentioned them because these functions still perform VERY poorly and even a cursory look at what's going on with the CPU, GPU and other system resources shows that the coders still are not effectively doing multitasking and offloading operations to the GPU as most other competitive products do. Even doing the most compute-intensive operations, my six (x2) core CPU rarely goes over 50% and the GPU fans never even come on.
My biggest complaint about ON1, aside from their horrible customer support is their obvious lack of regression testing. I have yet to install an "upgrade" that didn't break several features that were important to me and worked just fine in previous versions.
I've posted several times that IMO, ON1 is having their software work done by an offshore third party. There are many factors that caused me to make this assumption and ON1 has so far not refuted this opinion. Suffice it to say that the last time I programmed something was a couple of hours ago. Perl, primarily although I am conversant in C and a couple of other compilable languages.I build my own computer systems and I've lead multinational development teams on scores of product initiatives. Including several years working at Intel and Boeing. I have sufficient hash marks to be treated with respect in this area and I know bad support and bad SQA when I see it. And I can also recognize a company that is run by executive staff who are completely disengaged in the day-to-day operations of the company. Craig Keudell said as much during a public interview several years ago.... a stunning statement by a CEO and especially the CEO of a then startup like ON1.
I like the feature set in ON1....it's basically LR and PS rolled into one. There is no one product out there as fully featured as ON1PR is, to my knowledge. If it worked reliably and if the performance was half way reasonable it would be worth the ~$180 per year for my Plus membership. I process between 100-250 images every week using a D850 which is "slightly" more high end than whatever 24mp rig you are using. I will be changing to the Fujifilm GFX system as soon as they drop the prices on their 50mp Rangefinder with the plan of doing most of my serious work with their GFX 100S. Unless ON1 gets their act together very soon I will be forced to go to Cap1. If ON1 can't handle my D850 RAW images there is no way it will be able to handle medium format files.
Also, unlike many on here I have neither the desire or inclination to implement a work flow that requires multiple software products. I used Lightroom (only) for many years and Gimp before that. Before Gimp came along I was shooting film.
I truly hope that ON1 gets serious about thoroughly testing their software before it is released to customers. The PR2020 did get a few weeks of customer beta testing which probably helped get a few bugs fixed prior to the full release. However PR2020 does have a couple of features that no longer work correctly so they obviously still have a ways to go.
If I was the Engineering VP of a company I would get one (maybe) reprieve if I shipped defective software. If I did it twice, I would be in the unemployment line. This expectation is not "picky", "fussy" or unreasonable. It's a fact of life in a marketing driven development environment. I am simply holding ON1 to the same standards that pretty much all professional Engineering Managers are held to in a commercial software development environment.
So before you post yet again on how swimmingly your antique boat anchor 2GB PC is running ON1PR, I hope you will reflect on what I've had to say.
Thank you.
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This is a summary of everything we've learned (that I know of) over the past few months. Hopefully (fingers crossed) On1 will have fixed some of these issues in the Spring Update.
Check that GPU driver is up to date
Make sure GPU is set for On1 to use it
Remove any On1 folders from the path of your Antivirus
C:\Program Files\ON1
C:\ProgramData\ON1
C:\Users\(your name)\AppData\Roaming\ON1
Close the left panel while editing to prevent the previews updating constantly
Turn off cataloging: Remove everything from the catalog and work directly off of your drives.If it's an option, move your cache to a fast drive.
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ON1 is building RAW for multithreading, I asked them specifically about it. You can also go to Task Manager and see the usage when you ask RAW to do anything. It made me think that since AMD Ryzen is great with multithreading that that will be what I go with on my next build ... then someone came on the forum with a Ryzen Threadripper and he was having issues so it isn't any better or worse.
Everything Rick has said is what we have found "works"; these are all workarounds until they get RAW fixed and it doesn't solve the issues 100%. Getting off of the on board graphics may help, may not. Something I just found in my Nvidia software was a place to check for the GPU to do computational work vs graphics work.
There has to be inherent flaws in RAW as it is stable for some and not for others. I have seen it use 100% GPU and CPU at the same time with 16 GB system memory and 2 Gb video memory. I have seen it use over 8 Gb of memory on a 24 Mpix photo and usually it runs about 2 Gb.
Honestly I wouldn't buy a $500 video card for your rig yet. I was/am planning on building my next computer but questioned myself on spending loads of money (approx $1500) to use on a piece of software that costs $100 ... doesn't make sense to me. If ON1 doesn't get it straightened out it may be better to buy another piece of software that works for $150. But that's my logic.0 -
Thanks very much for the summary Rick.
I'm not using catalogs, I am running off a high end Samsung SSD and the left panel is indeed closed. I did whitelist ON1 in the AV scan list as you recommended although I doubt this is a factor in my situation and there has been no improvement since doing this.
As noted in various other forum posts, ON1 and the various shills who post youtube videos have obviously discovered techniques to get PR to perform acceptably.... that or they are doing a LOT of video editing to make it appear that PR is performing well. I've noticed significant "stalling" during ON1 LIVE broadcasts that the speakers have chalked up to being due to the teleconferencing software.
It is an undeniable fact that ON1 indeed has inherent flaws as Vinny stated. New releases receive little or no regression testing and support is completely MIA for anyone needing help. I'm assuming that ON1 must be bleeding customers since I'm sure most are trying to run PR on not very high end PCs. If I can't get even marginally acceptable performance from a fresh ON1 install onto a VERY high end PC that I built specifically to run PR 2019 I am quite certain that ON1 has lost a LOT of customers for the same reason that will be forcing me to move to a competitor's product.
@Vinny: In a couple of months it's won't matter a bit to me what ON1 is "in the process of doing". I've struggled with PR for a couple of years now trying to get it to work reliably... asking (Begging!) ON1 support for help only to be ignored. My bad for not doing more research on the company and product before cutting the cord with Adobe. But in fairlness to myself, ON1 has been quite aggressive about scrubbing any negative posts about their products and [lack of] support from these forums, Facebook and elsewhere. I think ON1 is well on their way to becoming a toxic brand due to word-of-mouth complaints and negative experiences. At some point, ON1's reduced revenue from a shrinking customer base will make improvement efforts impossible should they ever decide that they actually care about their customers.
That said, building this high end PC to try to get ON1 PR to work is my final effort. If this doesn't get fixed in a hurry, I will be gone..... a step I should have taken over a year ago. I totally LOVE PRs features, at least those in the develop and effects modules. Layers, not so much.
We'll see if adding a 1060 or better video card improves things... certainly can't hurt. And when I move to a competitor product I will need to have a high end video card installed anyway so it's not like it's going to be wasted money.
I sent ON1 support a copy of my log file which probably has helpful information in it that would mean something to the software developers. So far, ON1 support has again completely ignored my trouble ticket. Note that it thinks there is only 256 MB VRAM (although ON1 is using > 4GB RAM)... this certainly seems like a clue to me
Aside from the turtle-speed performance issues, the most obvious problem I am having is that when I export the finished image as a jpg file, ALL of the develop and effects adjustments are missing from the resulting image with the exception of the watermark. I have to go back to the browse module and export from there to get export to work correctly. I had this exact same problem on my laptop near the end of PR 2018's life... support was zero help on that occasion as well.... the problem "disappeared" after a couple of weeks even though no changes whatever (NONE!) were made to the laptop.
If I have something (ANYTHING) set incorrectly in PR or Win10 I will happily make the needed changes but to do this I will need to have someone/ANYONE at ON1 decide that I am a worthy enough customer to have them engage in helping to resolve these problems with their product.
Here's a log file snippet edited for readability:
2019-03-15 10:03:52 ON1 - Build: 13.2.0.6564
2019-03-15 10:03:53 ON1 - LibRaw: 0.19.1-Release
2019-03-15 10:03:53 ON1 - BRViewLocation::setData() could not create the dictionary from the xml.
2019-03-15 10:03:53 ON1 Photo RAW 2019 - Launched Standalone
2019-03-15 10:03:53 ON1 - System Locale: en
2019-03-15 10:03:53 ON1 - Default Locale: en
2019-03-15 10:03:53 ON1 - ONRaw: 212
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - System reports VRAM: 128 MB
2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - VRAM value not found. Assuming the VRAM is 256MB
[ 3804] 2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - OnOneFilterPipe::RunJobThread> RUNNING
[ 8736] 2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - OnOneGPUPipe::RunJobThread> RUNNING
2019-03-15 10:03:54 Analytics - DeviceID: 000030360000224d00001d930000285200007ed4
2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - Video Card Vendor: Intel
2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - Video Card VersionEx: 4.5.0 - Build 24.20.100.6346
2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - Video Card: Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630
2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - CreateRGBColorCube: 9.983100 ms
2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - CreateRGBColorCube2: 10.052300 ms
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - System reports VRAM: 128 MB
2019-03-15 10:03:54 ON1 - VRAM value not found. Assuming the VRAM is 256MB
2019-03-15 10:03:55 ON1 - ONExploreService::loadPhotos() loaded 0 photos; took 0 ms.
2019-03-15 10:03:55 ON1 - ONExploreService::loadVideos() loaded 0 videos; took 0 ms.
[ 4212] 2019-03-15 10:03:55 ON1 - ONExploreStartup::run() took 13 ms.
2019-03-15 10:03:57 ON1 - Server starting up
2019-03-15 10:03:57 ONQtServer - ONQtServer listening on 57060
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_set_psk_client_callback[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_set_psk_server_callback
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_CTX_use_psk_identity_hint
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve TLSv1_1_client_method
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve TLSv1_2_client_method
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve TLSv1_1_server_method
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve TLSv1_2_server_method
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_select_next_proto
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_CTX_set_next_proto_select_cb
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_get0_next_proto_negotiated
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_set_alpn_protos
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_CTX_set_alpn_select_cb
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:58 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot resolve SSL_get0_alpn_selected
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:03:59 ON1 - QWindowsWindow::setGeometry: Unable to set geometry 1048x368+944+656 on QWidgetWindow/'QueryImproveProductsDlgWindow'. Resulting geometry: 672x196+944+656 (frame: 11, 45, 11, 11, custom margin: 0, 0, 0, 0, minimum size: 336x98, maximum size: 336x98). [ 9304]
2019-03-15 10:03:59 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot call unresolved function SSL_get0_next_proto_negotiated
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:04:09 ON1 - QWindowsWindow::setGeometry: Unable to set geometry 818x824+1512+636 on QWidgetWindow/'ActivationSigninDlgWindow'. Resulting geometry: 818x860+1512+636 (frame: 11, 45, 11, 11, custom margin: 0, 0, 0, 0, minimum size: 409x430, maximum size: 409x430). [ 1924]
2019-03-15 10:04:17 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot call unresolved function SSL_get0_next_proto_negotiated [ 11648] 2019-03-15 10:04:27 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot call unresolved function SSL_get0_next_proto_negotiated2019-03-15 10:04:29 ON1 - Activation - Network Active (membershipActive)
[ 7396] 2019-03-15 10:04:29 ON1 - QSslSocket: cannot call unresolved function SSL_get0_next_proto_negotiated2019-03-15 10:04:30 ON1 - Importing legacy effects presets.
2019-03-15 10:04:32 ON1 - Welcome URL: https://www.on1.com/welcome/photoraw2019.php/?plus=yes&state=Active&res=highdpi
2019-03-15 10:06:35 ON1 - PLLrMigrationCacheMgr::initialize - > cache manager initilized.
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:08:15 ON1 - editingFinished() A2019-03-15 10:10:43 ON1 - CreateRGBColorCube: 8.756200 ms
2019-03-15 10:10:43 ON1 - CreateRGBColorCube2: 8.859800 ms
2019-03-15 10:10:44 ON1 - ********************** Opened file wetlands_0309194.nef with ONPhotoRaw
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:11:35 ON1 - QWindowsWindow::setGeometry: Unable to set geometry 700x260+1576+972 on QWidgetWindow/'OnOneProgressWindow'. Resulting geometry: 688x188+1576+972 (frame: 11, 45, 11, 11, custom margin: 0, 0, 0, 0, minimum size: 344x94, maximum size: 344x94).2019-03-15 10:23:37 ON1 - ********************** Opened file wetlands_0309194.nef with ONPhotoRaw
[m3424] 2019-03-15 10:23:41 ON1 - QWindowsWindow::setGeometry: Unable to set geometry 700x260+1576+972 on QWidgetWindow/'OnOneProgressWindow'. Resulting geometry: 688x188+1576+972 (frame: 11, 45, 11, 11, custom margin: 0, 0, 0, 0, minimum size: 344x94, maximum size: 344x94).2019-03-15 10:25:49 ON1 - CreateRGBColorCube: 8.700500 ms
2019-03-15 10:25:49 ON1 - CreateRGBColorCube2: 8.761400 ms0 -
Frank,
I will say that I am using a 8 YO computer and I expect somewhat slow but not the problems I have and others with new computers are having. No where on their website does it indicate my computer is "out of date" to use the program ... there are other programs out there that I can't use because of my computer being out of date.
The RAW 2017 was a total disaster for me and I started looking around at other software, there are at least 2 that I could go to if it doesn't get straightened out. RAW 2018.5 (or .6) made the program run really well and I only upgraded to 2019 because I am doing a presentation on it at my camera (based on 2018) in June and felt I needed to show them the latest and greatest; I did upgrade reluctantly because of my experience with the 2017 platform. The funny thing about this program is that not everyone is having issues, there are some people here with newer and older computers that it seems to work fine on ... then there's the rest of us! :-) A new update should be very soon I imagine ... time will tell if they can make this thing work.
As far as scrubbing the FB site - yep it is ON1's Stepford Wive's place - nothing bad is to be posted. As far as videos - I have only heard 1 person mention how some people are having issues with the program during the video and said to give it the full 30 day trial before buying it. I think Dylan mentioned in the last masking video that 'you guys need to fix these bugs' so they are aware.
For the video card, check out the new 1660, it is supposed to be pretty good! I also think the AMD 580 or 590 may be pretty good too.0 -
@Vinny: If I was trying to run ON1 on an 8 YO PC I wouldn't be wasting people's time complaining about performance problems. My issue is that ON1 PR has had a LOT of bugs and runs demonstrably slower than LR on a very high end ROG laptop. To eliminate any possibity that these problems are on my end, I invested a couple of thousand bucks to build a very souped up desktop. I've built hundreds of computers over the years and have worked on tens of thousands of computer problems over my 50+ year career so the chances that this new PC is set up incorrectly is unlikely to say the least. I'm happy to listen to anyone who actually knows something who can give me fact-based advice on what I should be looking at on this clean, new build. But when ON1 support tells me to "check to be sure I have the latest drivers" (assuming that they even daign to respond to my request for help at all) I just have to give them the Bronx cheer.
This is a clean, out of the box ON1 software install on a clean, freshly built, perfectly functioning PC... and ON1 is running at turtle speed and has a LOT of MAJOR bugs. ON1 parrots the "these are known problems that will be fixed in the next release" excuse when my laptop, which is running the exact same version of ON1 PR does NOT have these problems.
ON1 support either knows nothing or is too lazy to actually help customers like me so I am forced to ask for help from other user to resolve problems that are clearly belong to the ON1 end. I really like many of PR's features, as I've said.... but it's rapidly approaching time for me to abandon this sinking ship.
Yes, I too have read claims made by people who say they are not having any problems whatsoever with ON1 PR. But many of these claims are being made by ON1 shills who have happily sold their integrity for whatever $$$ ON1 is paying them to misrepresent reality. And then you have the fanboys and other knuckleheads who are contrary just for the sake of being obnoxious.
I am no novice when it comes to managing computer systems and dealing with buggy software and uncooperative vendors. If I am having MAJOR problems with ON1 PR, I'm reasonably certain that a great many others are having problems as well. If ON1 and especially ON1 support was actively engaged in helping to resolve these MAJOR issues then it might be worth hanging around for a while longer. But I've been hearing the broken record "we know about this and it will be fixed in the next release" or "no one else is reporting that problem so it must be on your end" nonsense for a very long time. At some point, a reasonable person needs to accept that ON1 is never going to fix these problems and just move on.
Also, and perhaps more significantly, I think that very few people would be willing to put in as much effort as I have to fix problems that are clearly caused on ON1's end. I think most would do the 30 day trial as you advised..... determine that ON1 PR just isn't ready to play prime time and then buy something else. The more customers ON1 loses, the less revenue they will be generating.... and with less revenue the chances of anything actually getting fixed becomes even more remote. Several ON1 shills regularly post the excuse that ON1 is "a young company with a very small staff"..... this reads like a coded marketing spin that translates to "ON1 is only interested in staying afloat long enough to be bought out".
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It seems my 8 YO computer runs ON1 RAW about as well or maybe better than your new machine. You are saying your laptop is running it better than your new machine so neither age or how powerful a computer is seems to matter. Why would an identical program run worse on one computer vs another is the obvious question. I'm not a programmer or IT professional but building computers is not all that difficult these days so if the computer boots up and Windows boots without errors you should be home free.
I do believe that some of the end users have problem free software, I had experienced it myself when others had issues with 2018.5 and I didn't. Not sure what ON1 is doing but at least for RAW 2019 I'm waiting it out to see where it goes... If it goes no where then it may be time to move on.
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Frank, I am with you on this... Although, not at 50yrs in compute industry, only 30+ and have development fingerprints in both network and compute architectures. Can talk anything in hardware from the layers on the PCB to the software implementation stack. I've programmed in so many languages I've lost count and have multiple databases in production.
I was (am?) befuddled with he 2019.2 release. I really like the potential, but the troubleshooting of the workrounds is fairly high.
I've been through a litany of workarounds for my XPS. For me, the magic bullet was from Kevin P. It is part of what Rick copied in above.... but I also add a couple of tweaks
The basic thought of removing AV from anything On1 is a big part of the magic bullet. The second is has to do with cloud storage.
Basically, as stated, #1 is to remove these directories from AV: C:\Program Files\ON1 ; C:\ProgramData\ON1 ; C:\Users\(your name)\AppData\Roaming\ON1
(I would go ahead and clear the caches and scratch locations at the same time)
Although, removing AVs from these directories helped a lot, did not end my On1 woes: I also had to do the following:
* Make sure the image files I was using with On1 are NOT on cloud storage!
* Also, remove image file types from AV
Both of these were a big deal WRT operations.I have also done the added step of removing any/all cataloging of files in On1. As that still caused hiccups.
In the end, I think I almost pushed 2019.2 back to 2018 features set. Oooppss.
Now, if I can only get rid of the excessive .on1 files (non-edit files do not need to have an .on1 file created) and the XMP overwriting flaws. Sigh.
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I left ON1 alone for a couple of months hoping for a new release, but LR is irritating me again, so I came back. Not sure if there has been a patch, but I was pretty happy with the speed most of the time. It crashes on me about every 4th or 5th export, but I can live with that. I ended up cataloging my 50K images, not necessarily because I wanted them cataloged (although the search capabilities would be nice) but just to make it easier to browse. The root folder of my images is buried pretty deep in the Windows hierarchy, so scrolling down forever using folder view is tedious. If the view would just stay where I left it, or allow me to make that the top of the view that would be nice.
Anyway, this morning, I was reviewing 3 other packages for culling and metadata purposes and scrolled through 100 images on all 3. They took 1 minute each. It could have been faster or slower depending on me, but there was no lag in response time. Just for grins, I cranked up ON1 2019.2 and did the same operation. After 1.5 minutes, I had gone through 25 images and gave up. I closed the program, closed everything else I had running that used any resources and tried again. Same result. Don't know if this is the software in general or because of the cataloging, but it is unacceptable either way.
I would really like an all-in-one system, but this isn't it. Looking forward to the 'spring release' I keep hearing about.
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With reference to the log file posted. Here is an extract from mine just to show how yours differs:
2019-03-24 12:28:22 ON1 - Build: 13.2.0.6564
2019-03-24 12:28:22 ON1 - LibRaw: 0.19.1-Release
2019-03-24 12:28:22 ON1 Photo RAW 2019 - Launched Standalone
2019-03-24 12:28:22 ON1 - System Locale: en-GB
2019-03-24 12:28:22 ON1 - Default Locale: en-GB
2019-03-24 12:28:23 ON1 - ONRaw: 212
[m5140] 2019-03-24 12:28:23 ON1 - System reports VRAM: 6052 MBI do have 6GB of video RAM.
I have a lot of "Failed to set thread priority" errors and some "cannot call unresolved function SSL_get0_next_proto_negotiated". It is obvious ON1 uses the QT library and it would only be speculation as to whether these errors are in QT or ON1.
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I see QThread class (https://doc.qt.io/Qt-5/qthread.html) has a public function setPriority which only takes one argument (
QThread::Priority) so it would seem pretty simple to sort out.0 -
I tried everything recommend by ON1. Memory upgrades, SSD, the lot.
I even bought a new laptop dedicated to ON1.
Still getting the same problems. The lag slowly, or quickly get worse until it's in minutes rather than seconds. Not only that, 2019.2 itself if tired of its body and just disappears along with hours or work.
No warnings, straight back to the desktop.
I've been persevering from the start of PR but now I'm getting so tired of it.
I've spent days upgrading graphics drivers etc. following ON1's recommendations.
I've finally come to the conclusion that PR is an apple design and it just won't work with Windows and I'm not switching to apple.
So frustrating to have to finally give up on it but it's either that or a heart attack.0 -
FWIW, I just found another way to help avoid slow performance in On1.
File > Edit > Preferences > Files(Tab) > UNCHECK Apply Lens correction automatically to RAW photos.For me, the improvement is almost as good as turning off the cataloging.
For a while, I noticed On1 created an .on1 file for every file in a directory, even if you never opened a file. If I have 1000 files on a network location, on1 would create 1,000 files at 1kb each.
I thought this was because of the sidecar function, Upon further inspection , it seems the culprit was the selection of automatically applying lens correction. This feature seems to cause On1 to create a .on1 file just scanning the directory for the first time. This also seemed to exercise the database read/writes. Turning this off, sped things up considerably.
Your mileage may vary.
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Gus, that's a really great tip.
Added it to the list!
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It is something that could be part of 19.3... it would be programatically simple to code "Only automatically apply lens profile if user opens up an image.".
If On1 uses this idea, I would like it if would send me a cookie (maybe oatmeal-raisin) as a form of payment.
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Not sure if this will help, but I gained a little more performance by elevating the CPU priority to HIGH for the ON1 exe.
I created a command file (txt file with a .cmd extension) to launch the program.
It has only one line in it (file and folder location will obviously depend on where it was installed to)
start "" /High "C:\Program Files\ON1\ON1 Photo RAW 2019\ON1 Photo RAW 2019.exe"I then created a shortcut to the cmd file (I called it ON1 Photo Raw.cmd)
The trick to be able to pin it to the Task Bar (Win 10) was to also include the explorer.exe prefix.
Again the actual path to the cmd file will depend on where you saved it to.C:\Windows\explorer.exe "C:\Users\{username}\ON1 Photo Raw.cmd"
I pin the shortcut to my taskbar and launch it from there.
I also use another application that launches a Game Mode to shut down a load of unnecessary services and applications running in the background.I have seen a definite improvement in ON1 performance, especially when masking using my Wacom Tablet.
I'm keen to try some of the other suggestions as well to see if it can improve any further.
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Steve,
Great tip! I inadvertently have been running game mode since ON1 needed a video of some things going on with masking problems. I didn't know why every time I opened RAW I would get the message about capturing the video - its because I'm running it in game mode LOL! Since I don't game I had no clue!!
It doesn't help me much as I'm running an older computer but it could help others.
BTW, it looks like we are not getting any updates until 2019.5 comes out in late spring. Lets hope they get a lot of the bugs out!0 -
Steve,
As long as you stay away from using catalogs, the higher priority is not going to hurt anything. But if you try and use catalogs, you will see your machine pretty much just stop working for seconds up to minutes at a time. Your mouse, your system task bar clock, the video drivers... they will all just stop. When 2019 came out initially, the catalog was even worse and I tried the opposite. I told ON1 to just use one of my core processors, and even that did not help. That was when many of us began to use a background monitor that would try and spread things out and keep ON1 from hogging everything. At one point, my two monitors went black and I thought my machine crashed and was down hard. No... it was just being beaten to death by ON1 and after a couple of minutes, things went back to normal. Until I scrolled down thru a catalog to far and WAMMM!!! It hit me again.
Kevin
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I specifically built a monster machine to use On1 2019, but the software still can't handle zoomed in masking. I asked the support many times on this, did everything they wanted me to do. Still no go. So finally they admitted that there is an issue and should be fixed in the next release...
AMD 1950x 16 cores, 32 threads, overclocked to 3.9 GHz, 64GB of PC3200 RAM running on the XMP 2.0 speed profile. Samsung EVO 970 PCIe SSd, GTX1080 Ti GPU
Tried to brute force this software, but it is such a piece of crap right now; can't be brute forced...
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Yeti,
Every time I see it written that "you need to use a newer computer" I think of you! You did build a monster computer; especially since they build RAW to utilize multiple cores and GPU ... If your computer can't force this thing to work quick I'm not sure why more people don't see an issue.
I wonder if ON1 programs RAW to utilize Intel processors vs AMD? I notice on their specs they only list Intel. I know that Windows needs a clean install if you had a Intel processor and then go to AMD and vice versa. I don't know about programming/machine language to say that they have to program generically or specifically for the processor.
My computer is getting rather old and I accept a lag but was planning on going the Ryzen route myself when the time comes assuming Intel doesn't respond with a chip to rival the new Ryzens coming out. I was planning on asking the question of processor manufactures when the time came to build.
The good news is that 2019.5 is coming and hopefully they cleared up a lot of bugs!0 -
Vinny,
LOL Yeah, I thought I could push it, but it didn't work. I am using the same machine editing 1080 and 4K videos, and other Adobe software run beautifully on this machine. When I look at the task manager on resource usage, I see that all Adobe software utilize quite a bit of the GPU power. On1 2019 only used a small amount of GPU but a heck of a lot on the CPU. My last contact with support, I asked if the Mac version ran fine because all of the demo videos you see are done on a Mac (and the videos look great and fast). The answer from support was that it affects all platforms with certain configurations of GPU. So, that led me to think that it's really how the software is utilizing the GPU, and it's very buggy right now.
Before I built the machine, I did ask if Intel or AMD made a difference. The answer was no.
The work around for the zoomed in masking issue was to reduce the program window size to a working minimum to do your job. That worked just a little bit better, but that is not how anyone in general would run the software. (I use a 32" 4K monitor) Also, the size of the photo RAW file mattered as well; I found out. So with my D810 files, the software run like crap. With my D700 files, it worked ok (36MP vs 12MP).
So, I think it is really how they wrote the code to use the GPU. They use OpenGL which AMD graphics cards are known to be a little better, but since I do use a fairly top end Nvidia card, that shouldn't be the main issue. Also, they may have to write for Nvidia's CUDA core to boost performance as Adobe software do use the CUDA cores if you have an Nvidia card.
Anyway, so if you were to build a new machine now for this, either Intel or AMD is fine, but when it comes to the graphics card, you need to think about it a bit, unless you are going to run an high end card and just brute force it like me... LOL
Hopefully, the next release will fix most of this...
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Thanks for the updates guys. I have this problem and have been following this post and making system adjustments as suggested. I have i7 processor 32GB RAM and NVIDIA graphics card but have huge Sony files (84MP) files. Didn't dig into it as far as you but this was the first reference I saw to file size. I am a bit concerned about the caution on the Nvidia card. I have a laptop and it is not as easy to swap this out. mmmm may be time to replace system.
Glad to hear that 2019.5 may fix some of these bugs.
I am limping along trying to post process, at first I couldn't even get the masking to run. Finally deleted catalogs and it works (slowly) for a short time and then I have to close the program and restart. As long as I don't do anything in browsing (except select my photo to edit).
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That is disappointing that they chose the delete method for complaints. It could be that the company is so small that they don't have a social media manager or that person is not experienced, overwhelmed or lacks the info to respond properly. They may see this problem as only affecting the few folks on this support post.
Unfortunately they are missing an opportunity with this group of more experienced users. We really want this product to work (some of us have had the product since the early days) and want to get away from the other product that shall not be named. The missed opportunity is that we can be a source of detailed info to help pinpoint the source of the problems and a simple acknowledgement, conversation and honest response would go along way to make us raving fans and frankly gain our respect. Social media missteps are all to common with small companies that are understaffed and struggling to keep up. This group could be a great beta group to test the product in a variety of windows installations that they do not have in their QA setup. This is not new ground many software companies do this and it helps enormously.
Hopefully they can resolve these problems and get back on solid footing - and perhaps mature a bit in the social media arena.
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I too want this to work out. I've had this software since 3 major versions ago. I can see the potential of this software, when one day it finally works well.
I don't depend on photography for a living, but if I did, this software in its current condition would kill me. So I don't use it, for now. I reverted back to PS and PS photo raw to do my photos now. I also own Skylum, and in many ways it is better than ON1, but overall, ON1 is better for almost everything (except this crap now).
The Facebook group is "only" to share photos and usage techniques, so my posts got deleted. And I got kicked out by a moderator (not ON1 employee) eventually because I just couldn't stand it any longer. haha... But like you said, it frustrated me even more and really made me feel more negative toward this software and this company. When I complained on the ON1 software Facebook page, my post never got posted or got a response back.
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I do see a difference in my D90 and D7200 files as far as program speed; the D90 is 1/2 the size and is quicker but I use my D7200 all the time now.
It's good to know about OpenGL, I thought both GPU companies were on the same page but obviously not. My build is not going to be for a while so it gives ON1 time to straighten themselves out! LOL!! I have only heard one person outside of ON1 comment to try RAW first for the whole 30 days as there are reported problems with it. But every time I watch any video using ON1 the program runs pretty good (although I have seen a bug in one of Dylan's videos and I could swear I heard him say 'you guys need to fix this bug').
Yeti - There is a movie out called the "Stepford Wives" that the FaceBook page reminds me of. All they want there is to show how good the program is - everything is fine and dandy! But in the background things are not (movie had a sinister background). If you don't comply they kick you out!0 -
The main moderator now is Dan's wife. She will delete any post that is deemed mildly complaining. I think it's the marketing arm of social media.
I went to try Luminar 3 and I can't get it to run on m computer and they can't seem to understand why - so all companies have issues. I tried and own other software (not Adobe) and it seems that users find bugs in them as well.I agree that if I were a professional that this would be the last software I would use due to the issues.
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Do you people have any idea what the Facebook page would look like if Tech issues and complaints were allowed to overrun the group? It would not be the same group that we have today.
Complaints on the Facebook page are not just deleted and ignored, they are directed to either Tech support or this group. This site was created specifically for those issues to keep the Facebook page from spiraling into chaos. The Facebook page does not provide any more Tech support than this forum does so there is no point in not using the proper place for the proper discussion.
THIS forum was created specifically for Tech issues and as far as I know, no posts have ever been deleted for complaining about anything.
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Rick - thanks for that info. That is a great point.
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Yes, I fully understand what that Facebook page is for. First I praised one of the updates working really well. It wasn't deleted. Then when I mentioned mildly about things not working after another update, they deleted and kicked me out. It's ok, but just shows the double standards and arbitrary ways of doing things. When you get so frustrated by the software and really want it to work, it's disgusting to see how everyone in that page is acting as if everything is perfect...
And the very fact that we can talk bad about the software and company here means that no one from the company is looking at this place. So it is kind of pointless other than the users can agree on that the software sucks right now and try, in many cases, non-definitively helping each other.
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