Continuously Re-cataloging
One problem I have noted since upgrading to 2019.5 is that it seems to keep restarting the cataloging process. The little pie next to my pictures folder starts out blank, then after a long time (I have many 10's of thousands of pictures) it seems to reach 100%. So far, so good. Then later, after restarting the program, it starts this process all over again, from the start (empty pie). I'm not sure what triggers this, it does not seem to happen all the time.
Suggestions?
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No suggestions. This has been a problem since PR 2018 was released. Surprised that you've only just noticed it. On1 has made changes to the algorithm over time but the continuous cataloging has been a serious problem for many. Some have had to dump catalogs completely just so the CPU doesn't get maxed out.
Feel free to report this to On1, they need to know it is still a problem.
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I would also look in the ON1 log file and see if there is an error associated with one of your images. I have seen (and I am not really clear where) that ON1 would hit a corrupted image file and stop things from moving past it.
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Thanks Rick, I did have problems in PR with cataloging with previous releases, but this is different. Previously, it was "continuous cataloging". In that case I found that there were several images that PR could not catalog for some reason, which eventually crashed the process. I could see from the log file that when PR would restart, it would eventually try to reprocess the same file with the same result. The fix was to remove the offending files from the catalog.
This is different. The cataloging process starts over completely. From scratch, even the files that were previously cataloged. Maybe this has been a problem for others, but its the first time I have seen it.
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The cataloging process is restarted with each launch so the program can catch any changes made to your cataloged folders outside of the ON1 program. This is how it is able to monitor those changes. If no changes have been made it will (should) complete fairly quickly as you've described. The engineers are aware that there are issues with this new release and they are working on it for the next update.
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Thanks Brian. Good to know its being worked on, but disappointing none the less. I'm not sure that I made many changes in my previous editing session, and would have presumed that PR would be working on any re-cataloging in the background. So far today the program has been open and re-cataloging for over an hour and is now at 86%. Its still sucking down 50% of the CPU and 20GB of memory on a i7-8700K desktop system (with a new RTX 2060 graphics card). I had thought my issues with cataloging were behind me, but I guess I may have to shut it off again.
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I'm in the same boat. My Pictures folder was completely cataloged in the .2 release but now sits constantly at 99% done. I've reported it to support and they are aware of the issue and the engineers are working on getting it fixed again.
The cataloging does take place in the background and shouldn't interfere with your ability to use the program.
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Interesting as the .5 update has stopped the recataloging problem on my computer. It only seems to run whenever I add photos into the cataloged area. Any other time it shows 100% done. I am actually planning on using the features of cataloging my photos. Hearing that it is a known bug is interesting, you'd think it would affect everyone.
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I agree Vinny. before 2019.2 I did have cataloging issues but with 2019.2 and 2019.5 no issues. In fact I had a complete catalog on 2019.2 and when I installed 2019.5 it asked what photo folder to catalog I selected my std. photo folder. The On1 installer then reported the catalog was already built and completed install. No rebuild of catalog at all and so far no issues with it as far as I can see.
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Until this release I avoided cataloging. I decided to implement a small catalog since this release supposedly fixed the problems. This small catalog consists of just this month's images (9 sub folders) and three folders representing projects currently active. I've had really good results thus far.
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Peter,
I had avoided cataloging until the last version and was able to get it working fine with my entire library, which is why this is so disappointing. I've tried all the tricks I used to get the last version working, as well as removing and restoring the catalog, manually cleaning up the directories in windows, removing all my albums and looking for hard errors in the log. No dice. An contrary to previous comments on performance, if I leave cataloging turned on ON1 eats up 30-60% of CPU and disk is operating at 20-100MB/s continuously. I've submitted a ticket and hope for a quick fix. Nothing worse than thinking you have your problems in the rear view mirror and end up with the same bug blat on the front wind screen.
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A quick fix ??? I did mention that this has been a problem since 2018 was released right?
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Peter, Not sure what previous comments you are referring to but I have cataloging turned on and have no issues. Not sure why all aren't impacted by the issue and I know it's frustrating but in 2019.2 and 2019.5 I have had zero issues with cataloging turned on.
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David,
There were certainly problems in previous versions related to improper processing of (potentially) corrupted files that kept the cataloging process working and never finishing. I experienced them first hand, and as I said, I was able to fix that with some help from ON1 to point me in the right direction. This is different. I'm glad you are not having problems, but since you like charts, look at this - after cataloging has reached 100% and then keeps on working:
If I turn cataloging off, under the same load conditions:
I'd say this qualifies as a serious performance issue. Its certainly possible that something is configured differently or improperly on my machine, but I'd be surprised especially since I can test this machine on the PC Benchmarks and score in UFO territory in gaming performance and at the high end of the desktop and workstation machine performance. I really can't imagine what Photo Raw is doing with all those clock cycles.
Patrick
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I have tried all suggestions to prevent the software continuously cataloguing but my cpu and memory continue to experience high loads. This happens with small and large numbers of files in the catalogues. The only fix is to remove all files from the catalogues, then the cpu and memory load return to useable amounts and the software is fast and useable. This has been an issue on my win 10 set up for the last two updates. I hope they are able to come up with a solution.
Ken
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Something that I noticed with 2019.5 was the first time I did the cataloging it didn't ramp down the CPU and memory usage. Shut it down (may have rebooted my computer as well) and went back in and it was idling at a low rate.Here is a screenshot of my computer Idling, I have a lot of photos in the catalog, Windows is saying 26,000 files (not all photos) in my "Pictures" area. My computer is an older computer with an Intl I5-760 processor, 16 Gb memory and a Nvidia 2 GB video card. I have the adjustments mentioned in other parts of the forums done to my computer and although I wish I had a new computer it isn't operating too bad on this one. ON1 is barely using resources and if you look you can see my pictures cataloged folder says 100% done.
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Vinny,
Thanks. Yeah, I previously tried the shutdown and reboot with no success. I may give it another try the next time I catalog. I have it shut down right now so I can get some work done.
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Patrick --- if you read my post I never said you didn't have issues and I thought was empathetic to your issue. I was simply trying to rebut your statement "An contrary to previous comments on performance," where you seem to imply people are lying and thought I would include data to support my statement that on my machine and install of On1 I don't have issues with cataloging. I will say that when I first installed 2019.2 I started the catalog process before I went to bed and let it run overnight without touching my computer. When I got up in the AM the process was complete and I have had no issues since. Good luck with your problem.
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David,
No offense taken...my comment on performance was directed at an earlier comment that the continuous cataloging did not effect editing performance and was specifically talking about my case. It was not intended to be directed at anyone else's experience. I am not surprised that different people have different experiences given their hardware and software configurations, I would just like to understand why, particularly since I would consider my machine to be somewhat "pristine". By that I mean a machine that is of modern vintage, running the latest software and drivers, protected by firewalls and virus software, and showing great performance running standardized benchmarks.
So please take my input as simply trying to provide additional data to support eliminating this problem. I was in your boat during the last update...my stuff was working great and others with superficially similar configurations were up the creek!
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This what I deal with on a regular basis. 2019.5 does appear to be a bit better since it seems to reduce background activity when not in Browse but I find if I leave Photo raw in Browse and go away for a while when I come back my CPU is pinned. I use process lasso just to keep PR from taking over my whole PC, without it, I wouldn't have been able to make this post without shutting down PR first. As I've said, this started when 2018 was released.
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Patrick, I understand.
I think the problem for the On1 team is there are so many configurations of PC's & software. I just built a new machine and fresh install of Windows at the time 2019 came out and I didn't try to catalog until 2019.2. On my old computer I couldn't use cataloging because of the same symptoms you have now but that was with 2018 versions. I can't figure out if it's new chipsets or clean install of windows and removal of old system junk but right now I am lucky enough to have On1 performing really well.
Best regards
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Rick - so weird I am not seeing that either -- knock on wood!!
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Yes, I am sympathetic with the team trying to build a state of the art tool supporting a plethora of hardware, but that's part of the job...otherwise give us better hardware guidance and beta testing support. I think providing sandboxed betas or bersions that don't overwrite production software would entice more users. I did not beta this version because I could not afford to sacrifice a working configuration and did not have a second machine for that purpose. And to your point, my current hardware is not the same as I used for the last version (although cataloging still worked prior to the upgrade). There's something there in the details.
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All they need is to add the ability to switch the catalogues to manual mode so that they can be disabled when they aren't being used. That way they wouldn't run at all until I enable them again. I would like to right-click a catalogue and select 'Scan Now', and when it's done, STAY done.
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Rick - after reading your post I opened up RAW and let it sit for hours - it never recataloged my photos ... stayed at very low level system resource usage. I did notice that when I started it up it did use resources for about 2 minutes but then stopped; I assume it is RAW looking to see if anything changed in the folders.
I started thinking about this hit or miss with problems and what I don't understand is I believe an AMD or Intel CPU or AMD, Nvidia or Intel GPU will get the same instructions to operate based on the brand. They may operate faster or slower but an I3, I5 or I7 (and AMD's equivalents) use the same coding from the boards. I can understand the new chipsets make an older machine not operate properly for newer software but there is not a huge difference in hardware AND if you put Apple in the mix - there is no deviation in the hardware. I could not use cataloging in 2019.2 but can in 2019.5 and some are having opposite experiences ... based on my limited knowledge it all doesn't make sense. I would expect all people using Windows having issues vs MAC for the same problem.
I have an older computer and installed RAW on a 1 YO laptop with an Intel I3 CPU and whatever Intel built in graphics the chip has and RAW runs well once all the Windows housekeeping is done (that's another story!) but both run it very well. I did use all the adjustments mentioned in the threads on both computers but you are talking an age difference of 8 years and different configurations.
It is frustrating and I was looking to get away from ON1 with the 2019.2 release as my past experience with 2017 is that it didn't work correctly until 2018.5 or there about. I didn't want to wait 1 1/2 years for this to get straightened out.
My main computer is running Windows 10 pro 64, I5-760 CPU, has 16 Gb ddr3 memory A Nvidia GT-730 (obsolete now) with 2 Gb ddr5 memory and 2 SSD drives using a SATA 2 bus. I use Windows defender as my antivirus and as I said I have made all the adjustments to it to run RAW. The laptop is an HP factory setup using an I3 and Windows home 64 with 6 Gb memory - it is a stock machine and I did the same adjustments to it as well. It is really puzzling!0 -
Vinny, instead of letting On1 sit for hours, when it's idle, try editing a photo from early in the catalog or adding a new one to it. I'm wondering how the trigger works that makes the catalogue re-scan.
I occasionally go back to old photos and redo them. This means re-editing a photo that may be many years old and is deep in the catalog, also running the photo through an external sharpening routine that adds a new sharpened file beside the original. Since the catalogs scan for hours to update, I'm thinking that working on just one photo like this will start the process and each time a change is detected it starts all over again. I'm thinking that if I re-edit just 2 photos in an evening, that could trigger hours of catalog re-scanning.
My (10yo) PC is Win 10 home, Core™2 Extreme Processor QX6700 2.66GHz Quad-Core, 8gb ddr3, Nvidia GTX 760. I have 3 RAIDs on SATA 2 but just added an M.2 to see if it helps.
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Rick, I know you didn't ask me to do this but I tested it.
With On1 shutdown, in windows explorer I added a folder to the one currently cataloged and moved about 18 JPGS into it. Fired up On1 and it probably took less than 30 seconds to see the change and complete the catalog process. Only the folder I added showed the catalog in process indicator. All CPU and Memory use to normal. I can say I routinely go back into very early folders and edit photos and don't trigger a full re-scan for the catalog.
Not sure it's of use but my system info:
Intel I5-8400 CPU @ 2.8 GHz
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO WiFi (Intel LGA1151/Z390/ATX/2xM.2 Gaming Motherboard)
32 GB DDR4 RAM
Video Card: GeForce RTX 2060 - 6GB RAM
Windows 10 Home edition 64 bit Ver 1809 Build 17763.529
OS and On1 on Primary internal SSD
ON1 Scratch and Browse folders on small 240GB internal SSD
Photos stored and edited on 1TB internal SSD
Photo Raw 2019.5(13.5.0.7007)
Antivirus: Norton Internet SecurityPointing device:
Kensington Trackball -- driver 1.31
Wacom Intuos PT S --- Driver 6.3.34-30 -
Ok, thanks for trying that. If that's the case, I don't know why I have to deal with this all the time and I'm out of ideas. I still say I need a way to turn it off though (without dumping the catalogs).
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Update for those of you also looking for a solution:
I removed all catalog folders and then began adding them back one at a time. What I noticed was that the processor bogged whenever a PSD file was found that was marked with the LR icon in browse. I was able to see that these file were being opened in the ON1 log. I infer from documentation that these are lightroom files that ON1 has not completed processing. (Note: I don’t know why they wouldn’t have been processed by my LR migration in the earlier versions of PR--they are not new files)
I laboriously identified and removed all these files (Btw, Can you search on the LR icon tag in ON1? I could not figure out how to do it. I guess if the search requires the files to be cataloged that would not work either). I eventually got to a spot where I thought the cataloging problem was gone. All folders said 100%, there was no re-cataloging. Yay! I shut down ON1 and went to get some sleep. Opened it up this morning, all folders said 100%, though I was home free. Then the little empty pies began appearing next to the folders. Disk usage shot to 100% CPU utilization at 40-60%. 13 of 20 folders are now re-cataloging.
My Conclusion: this is not something where ON1 is stuck on a particular file or set of files. It either forgets its cataloged all these folders, or it thinks that every file in the system has been touched and needs re-cataloging. Or it has the worlds most inefficient algorithm for scanning a file system to determine if something has been touched.
Any suggestions? I've turned cataloging off. Its a shame. It was working great for me in the previous version. I guess I'll keep renewing my LR subscription after all.
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Update for those of you also looking for a solution:
I removed all catalog folders and then began adding them back one at a time. What I noticed was that the processor bogged whenever a PSD file was found that was marked with the LR icon in browse. I was able to see that these file were being opened in the ON1 log. I infer from documentation that these are lightroom files that ON1 has not completed processing. (Note: I don’t know why they wouldn’t have been processed by my LR migration in the earlier versions of PR--they are not new files)
I laboriously identified and removed all these files (Btw, Can you search on the LR icon tag in ON1? I could not figure out how to do it. I guess if the search requires the files to be cataloged that would not work either). I eventually got to a spot where I thought the cataloging problem was gone. All folders said 100%, there was no re-cataloging. Yay! I shut down ON1 and went to get some sleep. Opened it up this morning, all folders said 100%, though I was home free. Then the little empty pies began appearing next to the folders. Disk usage shot to 100% CPU utilization at 40-60%. 13 of 20 folders are now re-cataloging.
My Conclusion: this is not something where ON1 is stuck on a particular file or set of files. It either forgets its cataloged all these folders, or it thinks that every file in the system has been touched and needs re-cataloging. Or it has the worlds most inefficient algorithm for scanning a file system to determine if something has been touched.
Any suggestions? I've turned cataloging off. Its a shame. It was working great for me in the previous version. I guess I'll keep renewing my LR subscription after all.
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Patrick you may have hit on a fault with Lightroom imports. After trying everything else suggested I removed all my catalogues. I then replaced the catalogues one year at a time starting with the most recent. I have use on1raw exclusively for processing for the past two years and the cataloguing of these folders seems to work flawlessly and cause no other issues and the cpu and memory use is normal. When I replaced the files from three years ago (all processed in LR and imported to on1raw) the problems returned and cataloguing was continuous and used large proportions of cpu and memory. I have no idea why the files imported from Lightroom would cause this issue. The problems are not present when the catalogues files have been processed exclusively in on1 software. This is a real issue as I have years of files originally processed in LR.
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