Lens corrections for manual lens - How?
I am using a Samyang 7.5mm f/3.5 UMC Fisheye MFT lens to shoot panoramas. I know that the lens correction parameters are in the Lensfun database that ON1 uses in RAW. HOWEVER, the lens is completely manual (though modern) and has no electronic communication with the camera. This means that there is no information in the EXIF to tell RAW what lens correction to use.
The easiest way to fix this would be if ON1 allowed us to set the "Make" and "Lens" in the Lens Profile area when it is a manual lens. In what is really a puzzling design choice, IF there is EXIF data in a file, as with most electronically connected lenses, then you are completely free to use some pull-downs to set the "Make" and "Lens" (thought why you would want to, since it is already set to the correct lens, I have no idea.) In fact, I can change one of my Olympus lens's images to have the "Make" and "Lens" for my Samyang 7.5mm lens AND I can see it do corrections. However, if there is no EXIF for the lens in the file, those pull-downs DO NOT appear, so you CAN NOT set the "Make" and "Lens" when you actually need to do so! So, unless ON1 decides to change this behavior to be more sensible, this easy fix is not going to happen. I see multiple cases of people asking for this in the forums, but no response from ON1 is to be found.
The harder way to fix this is to edit the EXIF information to put in my lens information. I have tried several programs that claim to be able to do this, with varying degrees of success. Some fail completely to write information and give errors, others act like they work, but don't. Only one I have found (MetaImage) manages to actually put some information into the file, though it is not entirely clear which fields I need to set to make ON1 RAW successfully load the corrections. I have tried various combinations and found that I can get ON1 RAW to reflect information in the Lens Correction module under "Lens Info", "Make", and "Lens", but is does NOT actually load any corrections (no change in the image when I turn corrections on and off again.) Also, although it shows what appears to be the correct "Make" and "Lens", there are no pull-downs like there are with my Olympus lenses.
I even tried to get clever and change the exif data to make ON1 think it was one of my Olympus lenses so that I could then get the pull-downs to change it to the correct "Make" and "Lens" and get the corrections, but I can't seem to fake that properly, even though I change what seem to be the correct EXIF fields.
Does anyone have a solution to this? Does anyone at ON1 look at these posts and have a response as to whether you might consider letting us set the "Make" and "Lens" when there is no lens EXIF, instead of disabling the needed pull-downs?
Can anyone help me with exactly what fields are needed to get ON1 RAW to choose the parameters it already has waiting in its Lensfun database? Note: I am using a Mac and could use some suggestions for EXIF editors (with a GUI!) that will allow me to set the necessary fields using a Mac. Programs I have not been able to make work properly are NameThatLens and setexifdata.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Have you tried creating a preset from one of the Olympus lens images where you've set the Make and Lens info for your Samyang 7.5mm then applying that preset to an image taken with that lens?
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Brian, you may have solved it! It does, in fact, seem to work. The "Make" and "Lens" fields are filled in (which I was able to make happen by editing EXIF) AND there does seem to be a change when I turn the correction off and on again (which did NOT happen when I got the fields to appear by editing EXIF.)
Hopefully, these are indeed the right corrections. I am a little leery because it seems to cause a small amount of the image to get cropped away, almost as if it were being de-fished.
Thanks, Brian! That is brilliant and simple to boot.
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I'm experiencing the same problem when using a fully manual lens.
I don't understand how I can adapt a profile from another lens and apply it to my (unrecognised) manual lens, since when I look (in Edit) at an image taken with the unrecognised lens, I'm "locked out" of the lens data base, and only have the manual adjustments available.
The only time I can get into the lens database is with an image taken using a recognised lens. I can then access the list of lens profiles and if I want I can (for example) apply a Fuji profile to an Sony lens.
What I would like is to be able to access the lens profile database when I have my manual "Lens info: No info" lens mounted. I could then search the database for a suitable profile to edit and apply to my unrecognised lens.
As it is, under Lens Correction the "Make" and "Lens" windows remain locked and I cannot access them.
If those windows were made operative for an unrecognised lens the problem would be solved.0 -
The comment by Brian was helpful and worked. Load an image from a recognized lens, then change the pull-downs to the manual lens in question (this assumes that the manual lens exists in the Lensfun database, which my Samyang lens did.) If you can find the lens make and model, then use the "make a preset" function in the menus and name it after your lens. Now, when you load up your manual lens image, go to Effects and apply that preset. Voila!
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Ah, that's where the problem arises.
The lenses I have (7artisans) do not appear on the Lensfun database, so I cannot fool the system into thinking they exist.
That's why I find it frustrating that a manual lens, recording no EXIF, effectively locks you out of the lens database.
The solution would be as I suggested in my final paragraph, to allow access to the "Make" and "Lens" listings, the same as you can with a recognised lens. This would allow me to experiment and possibly find a profile which is close enough to my lens, which can be customised to suit.0 -
Brian, write that up on the On1 PhotoRAW Project page so others can vote on it. If enough people agree with the idea it will get implemented in a future update. Eventually. :)
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Is this a problem for On1or is it a "Lensfun" issue?
I've looked at the Lensfun website and they encourage users to submit profiles for unlisted lenses.
It would be more useful to others if there were profiles for unlisted lenses, although without any EXIF information you still cannot get to the database listing in On1.
So on reflection it's a problem for both sides.I'll put the suggestion on the On1 PhotoRAW Project page and see what happens.
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Brian Lawson's solution to make a preset from another image in ON1 with the lens correction applied is GENIUS!! Just bought a Samyang 12mm F2.0 which is fully manual (and therefore has no electronic components) so doesn't talk to my Fuji X-T2...so no EXIF data appears in ON1 ... and therefore no way to manually apply the correct lens profile, even though it's in the database that ON1 uses!!! BTW - it does seem very odd that ON1 doesn't allow you to manually enter the lens profile as a mater of course.
Anyway until ON1 sees the light on this issue, I can now apply the lens correction and bingo!! - distortion and CA disappear - and that ultra sharp lens all the reviewers were raving about appears on the screen!! Many thanks Brian and thanks also to John Riley for first raising this issue here.
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Yes, we need a trip jar to thank Brian 8-)
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Thanks all, I'm glad I can help. A new 28 to whatever zoom lens would be nice. ;)
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As I've said previously, If I use a lens that doesn't record any EXIF information, I'm locked out of the lens database and cannot apply any different lens profile, so I cannot "invent" a profile that I can edit.
The simple solution would be to allow access to the lens data even if you do not have any recorded EXIF.
I cannot understand why this is so difficult to implement.
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Brian, you create the preset with a photo taken with a lens the program does recognize. After it has been created reset that image to the proper lens. Now you have a preset to use for those photos taken with the unrecognized lens.
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With no EXIF you are locked out of the lens profile menus so you cannot access ANY lens information.
I don't understand why you are barred from accessing lens data if you have no EXIF.
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Perhaps the confusion comes from my choice of words. Instead of preset I could have said style. The Style menu in the Lens Correction is still available.
These screenshots came from a photo taken with a Yashica 24mm manual lens. I haven't created a Style for this lens but you get the idea.
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NO. I'm afraid I can get no idea of what you mean from those screenshots.
The first one is what I see with my unrecognised lens.
I can understand that the second one is presented with the information from a lens in the lens database.
What I do not understand is how I can access the lens database from the first screen, or how I can apply the data for a recognised lens to the first screen.I will repeat what I keep saying: when you have a lens that does not record EXIF you are locked out of the lens database.
That means I cannot access ANY lens information, so I cannot edit it to suit my unrecognised lens.Here is a screenshot of what I see.
Can somebody please explain how I access the lens database, in order to modify another lens profile, from this screen?
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To create the preset start with a photo taken with a lens that the program does recognize. Change its settings to the manual lens you have and save the new style. Now you can apply that style to the photos taken with the manual lens.
This isn’t rocket science. 3 other users have been able to do it besides myself. I know you can too.
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OK, I've partly explored that avenue but I'm sorry, I still don't completely understand what you mean when you say "Change its settings to the manual lens you have."
What settings do I change?
Do you mean search the lens list until I find a lens with similar characteristics, or do you mean apply manual corrections?
There are no lenses in the database that are close to the lens I'm using, besides which there are not enough hours for me to test every possible candidate. Similarly, the manual adjustments do not have enough range to completely correct the distortions.
Either way I can't create a profile that corrects my manual lens.Along with this, when I'm trying to create a new profile the program keeps coming up with a "Not responding" message, and it locks up for several minutes, which is extremely tedious.
Since I'm dealing with a fisheye lens, there are several programs that are designed to "Defish" fisheye images and I think I'll probably better off with one of those. I'll also have to submit some samples to "Lens Fun" so that they can incorporate them in their lens database.
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If the lens database does not include your particular lens then the only way to adjust for it is with the manual controls. My suggestion is based on the premise that your lens or one close enough to be acceptable is in the db.
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I already said there is not enough range of adjustment on the manual controls to correct the lens I have, and I don't have enough time to search the database for a close match.
As I said, I'm probably better off spending money to buy one of the fisheye correction programs.
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Hi Brian G,
If you are willing to share a couple of RAW photos of buildings with obvious straight lines (front on of a tall building with wide glass windows are good), I can look at creating a profile for you (and mention the lens used since no exif data is recorded).
Regards,
Thaddaeus.
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Brian, if the manual controls don't give you enough range, then the presets aren't going to either. The presets ARE the sliders with a preset position. It looks like Lens correction is not powerful enough to correct your lens.
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Thanks Rick, that is what i was starting to suspect, that the adjustment sliders do not have enough range to correct the lens distortion.
Thaddaeus, the lens concerned is the 7Artisans 7.5mm f2.8 fisheye, which I'm using on an Olympus micro 4/3 body.This is a full manual lens with no electronic contacts and consequently does not generate any EXIF information. I don't have any shots of the subject you describe,I'd have to take something specially.
I was going to submit some test shots to the "LensFun" site, to allow them to generate a suitable profile, which hopefully would eventually find it's way onto the On1 lens database.As I suggested previously, at this point I'm probably better off with one of the "Defishing" programs that are available.
Thank you all for your interest,
Regards, Brian Gibson
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Hi Brian,
That screenshot you posted earlier, do you want me to have a go at that image?
As for your earlier question on writing exif info, have you used exiftool before? It is a very powerful and capable tool, command line driven but not too difficult once you get the hang of it.
It's not difficult to generate a profile yourself, and is one of the things I like about lensfun. I don't need to wait for a vendor to release a profile, I can do one myself.
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That was just a random shot I took when I was trying out the lens.
You are welcome to do anything you like with it.I am familiar with exiftool but I'm not sure how useful it is in this application.
I think the best thing I can do is take some profile photos and submit them to LensFun.
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Thanks Brian. Can you please upload the raw file to dropbox/google drive for me to download.
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Sorry, I'm away from home for a few days and I won't be able to do anything until next week.
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Bump.
Hi Brian I'm curious to see what I can do with the photo so if you still want to pursue this please upload the photo.
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