I tried to catalog again my folders on the assumptions that it has been fixed with the latest version. Well far from it!! I kept getting stuck in the Browse mode with a "not responding" state and had to shut off and restart On1 more than once before I could use Browse and remove the few cataloged folders. Does anybody use Cataloging without a problem??
If you want to use catalogues, you need to wait for them to finish. They use a lot of CPU while building and it will take time depending on how many photos you're cataloging. Once it's done, the catalogues will settle down.1
Just to add -- yes I have cataloging turned on and use it with no issues.1
I have over 45,000 images and I started with 4 folders/year when I hit the problem. I think I will forego the cataloging for now. Thanks for the feedback.1
I have about 50,000 images and managed to get part way through the cataloging process in trying to do the Lightroom to ON1 migration (mainly just interested in capturing key words associated with maybe a couple of thousand images in Lightroom). Now I'm in the Browse (Not Responding) situation. I've tried letting it run continuously for DAYS without stopping and then I've had to force the shut down and tried restarting the process. I was hoping the release of 2020.1 version would solve the problem and while it might have helped it didn't fix this problem. The software sits there consuming about 85% of my CPU, but doing essentially no disk access, so I don't really know what it is doing. I'm going to go back, remove ON1, reinstall it, and try doing the cataloging process again without any Lightroom conversion. I think cataloging might have worked once without the Lightroom conversion at least in part (certainly I have many .ON1 files created next to my image files).
I wish there was more information provided in the software about progress of the cataloging. In any case, software should not end up in a "frozen" state where it can't be gracefully shut down.1
The problem is most likely due to files being cataloged that the program is having trouble with. To complete the cataloging process the program has to render a preview for every image in the catalog. It sometimes gets hung attempting to re-render the same image again and again. The trick is to identify the problem file(s) and remove them from the cataloged folder or fix them.
There is a fee program called Bad Peggy that will scan image files and identify and possibly fix problem jpegs. ON1 requires images to be in an RGB colorspace or it will not work with them. If you have any grayscale images you'll have to remove them from the library or edit them so they are in the RGB colorspace.
You can look through the log file to see if it has identified any files it is having problems with. The log file can be accessed through the Help menu. There is also a couple of corrupt files log you can take a look at. It is in ~/Library/Application Support/ON1/.
The program is most likely hanging at launch because its browser is currently pointed at some folder with a problematic image file. You can reset that by holding the Shift key during startup. You'll be presented with a dialog offering two options for resetting the program. The first option resets your personal settings while the other resets the entire program to its installed state. Using either of those options, I would start with the 1st one, will reset the browser to point to your root level Pictures folder.0
Thanks for the clues. I am running Bad Peggy and have identified some candidate files tagged by that software although they seem to open in Windows JPG viewer. I'll move them out of the folders for now. The software also seems to not like some (but not all) of the JPG files made by my Olympus M-5. I have more work to do there to confirm.
I'm also going to try and find and remove some old scans that were possibly done in monochrome and might not have the appropriate color space. I was planning on using ON1 to catalog scanned B&W negatives, but given your information I will have to rethink the tools I'll use for that.
I have been unable to locate the directory path that you suggested on my machine (Windows 10). However I am looking at some messages in the "ON1 Photo RAW Log" file that is located in a hidden directory "AppData/Roaming/ON1/ON1 Photo RAW 2020/" in my user space. It looks like the catalog operation is unable to generate an image for a handful of old black & white TIFF scans, so I'll move those out of the folder structure and try again. Most of the other info in that file looks to be useful only to the people who wrote the code.
In any case, thanks, you've given me some new hope on tracking this problem down.
One thing I learned while researching this is there are different jpg "standards" and not all viewers will work with all the variants.
The old monochrome images can be converted to be in the rgb colorspace while remaining grayscale so you can work with them in ON1 if you like. It will increase file sizes as they move from 2-bit to 24-bit per pixel.
About the file path, I'm sorry for some reason I thought you were a Mac user. On Windows that path is C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\ON10
As you suggested, I cleared out the image files that were identified in the "ON1 Photo RAW Log" file and restarted ON1. They were some obviously bad JPG and some old B&W Tiffs in 16bit.
The log file shows ON1 starting up and indicates some problem with a HockApp session (whatever that is) and a couple of unresolved functions in what looks like a license check, but looks like it is starting OK by showing it "Loaded" some 60686 photos and 2764 folders. Then it starts a mostly regular sequence that has now been running for nearly 48 hours. I have no way of knowing if this is just running through folders or files normally, but successfully, and is just slow or if "job token was not cleared!" is a bad thing. The log file has thousands(?) of lines similar to these:
2020-04-24 10:19:38 ON1 - Job token was not cleared! : 3063453 Client: ES.catalog
2020-04-24 10:19:38 ON1 - Event (1001) on line 417 of onexploredatasourcewatcherimplfilepolled.qt.cpp
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Event (1003) on line 486 of brpreviewgeneratorbridge.cpp
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Event (1003) on line 1221 of onpreviewsvcrunnable.cpp
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Job token was not cleared! : 3061654 Client: ES.catalog
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Event (1001) on line 417 of onexploredatasourcewatcherimplfilepolled.qt.cpp
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Job token was not cleared! : 3063022 Client: ES.catalog
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Event (1001) on line 417 of onexploredatasourcewatcherimplfilepolled.qt.cpp
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Job token was not cleared! : 3063035 Client: ES.catalog
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Event (1001) on line 417 of onexploredatasourcewatcherimplfilepolled.qt.cpp
2020-04-24 10:19:51 ON1 - Job token was not cleared! : 3063050 Client: ES.catalog
When I look at the CPU resource monitor, it looks like it's cycling through maybe three different kinds of processing steps so it continues to try and process something (sure would be nice if it at least wrote the folder name into the log file (image name might take too much time).
I guess I'll keep it running a while longer, but if history repeats itself, this will go on for days and never end.0
Unfortunately I can't interpret the log files any better than you, sorry. You should ask support about the job token message.
There's one more thing you can try if you haven't already. Now that you've found at least some of the problem files you can delete the catalog and create a new one. That has worked for me in the past. I would remove the catalog and quit the program then delete all the log files before restarting it and creating the new catalog. That will give you fresh logs should you have to look at them again.0
My MBP is running on High CPU(>250%) in the Log File I found:
2020-09-29 16:12:14 Sandbox - ONSandboxMgr::launchSandbox
2020-09-29 16:12:14 Sandbox - Launch Path - file:///Applications/ON1%20Photo%20RAW%202020/ON1%20Photo%20RAW%202020.app/Contents/PlugIns/ON1Sandbox.app/
2020-09-29 16:12:14 Sandbox - Launch Error Error Number = 256
What does it mean? How can I fix it?0
I don't know specifically what it means but, in general, it says that the program had some kind of trouble launching the Sandbox component of the program. I'm guessing that the program crashed when you tried to open it?
Try launching the program again with the Shift key held down until you see the dialog to with the options for deleting settings files. Try deleting your own settings first then the program's settings.
If you're still having trouble after that try reinstalling the program.0
Christian Edi ON1 will have random high loads till all previews are built. A better way to check is the disk activity for ON1. If you start ON1 and the disk activity shows writes of over 100 MB, then, it is still busy doing something. Till the time the write activity does not come to this level, you can expect some random behaviour including freezes and crashes. I have the same numbers starting from over 100k files down to around 30k files in a catalog across 2 mac systems.
I generally run a small Applescript to step through images on a fresh install to make sure all previews are built overnight.0
Brian Lawson, thank you, made a reset of ON1 but Error still exists. I believe, ON1 can't handle possible damaged jpeg's. I checked Files with Bad Peggy programm. It shows a lot of jpeg-files as damaged. ("Not a JPEG file: starts with 0xff 0xe1') With Affinity Photo I can open these files without any problem and also in the Hex-Editor the file-header of these files looks good.
So I think ON1 has a bug, which causes the program to hang up.
Next step is to uninstall ON1 and try to add folders to the catalogue each for another to find out which folder makes the problem.0
You haven't given us much to work with in your description of your problem Christian.
Is the program crashing?
Is the program running but the CPU usage is very high? Are you creating Catalogs? While the catalogs are being built the system utilization will run very high while the program scans all the folders in the catalog and renders previews for each image it finds. This is normal and the system usage will drop to normal levels once the catalogs are built.
If you think the files identified by Bad Peggy are causing problems, I would move them out of the folders being cataloged and into a holding folder to be dealt with later. See if that fixes the problems first.0
I don't think the program is crashing.
The program is running the whole day now with CPU usage at 250%
In the error.log these messages is displayed for many times:
2020-09-30 21:33:04 Sandbox - Launch Path - file:///Applications/ON1%20Photo%20RAW%202020/ON1%20Photo%20RAW%202020.app/Contents/PlugIns/ON1Sandbox.app/
2020-09-30 21:33:04 Sandbox - Launch Error Error Number = 256
2020-09-30 21:33:04 ON1 - Event (256) on line 167 of ONSandboxMgr.cpp
2020-09-30 21:33:04 ON1 - Event (256) on line 681 of ONPreviewSvcRunnable.cpp
2020-09-30 21:33:04 ON1 - Event (256) on line 852 of ONPreviewSvcRunnable.cpp.
And I believe Bad Peeggy is wrong, it shows me a different error messages when I run it a second time. And when I edit the jpeg in an hex-editor the header is OK.0
If the program does not stop running and you're not getting a crash report from the OS and again from the ON1 program when you relaunch it, then no, it is not crashing.
No body here can interpret the log files, you'll have to ask support about the meaning of those lines.
You didn't say if you are creating any Catalogs or not. See my comment above about that. If you are creating any of them you can check on their progress by hovering the mouse pointer over the Catalog name.0
Christian Edi I always have this in the log file. Don't think this has any bearing on the app. I am on a mac with the exact same log messages.0
Brian Lawson, thank you, this hint is helpful. After 8 hours the catalogue reaches 100% (about 60k files) and cpu goes down.
so let's hope everything is OK now and I can start organising my pics.
Thanks to everybody :-)0
Have you seen the Catalogs and Caches page in the Knowledge Base? It includes the table below to compare disk space usage and quality of the different preview size options.
There's also this in the User Guide:
When you catalog a folder, you will be prompted to choose the size of the previews that are generated during the cataloging process, and whether you wish to publish the folder to your ON1 360. The three thumbnail options are:
- Standard, which extracts the image metadata and EXIF thumbnail and creates a high-quality thumbnail and a fit-screen-sized preview.
- Medium, which extracts metadata, EXIF thumbnail and creates a high-quality thumbnail.
- Minimal, which extracts metadata and the EXIF thumbnail only.
You have to leave Photo RAW running to complete building the catalogs. It runs as a background process but it is not forked into its own standalone process.0
As you noted before, the thumbnails that are generated are used for the Grid view and the User Guide tells us that Standard is the only one that creates the fit-screen-sized previews. If you are not seeing any performance or preview quality issues when using the Minimal option then that's what I would use. After the space issues, it's a personal preference thing IMO.
One thing we have not mentioned is the Preview Mode you are using. I'm guessing you are using Accurate, not Fast? Fast uses the embedded previews while Accurate renders the preview. From page 25 in the User Guide:
Raw Preview Mode: Lets you set how you would like to view photos in Detail mode. Fast will use embedded previews from the photos, while Accurate will generate a color-balanced preview.0
I'm glad to see further discussion around the problem. I was never able to get ON1 to successfully import my old set of files from Lightroom. I was hoping that the last update would resolve the problem, but it is back to "not responding" mode with the CPU chugging away at about 50% on my Windows 10 platform. Maybe I'll go ahead and let it run overnight with the last software update.
User support was very helpful earlier this year in trying to work towards figuring out the problem, but I ended up investing a great deal of time in experimenting with possible solutions to no avail. It's my personal belief that one of three things may be going on:
1. There are some "bad" image files or data structures from Lightroom (the older, pre-subscription version) but the whole catalog seems to run just fine with Lightroom.
2. ON1 just can't handle the number of files in my catalog even though supposedly it can. I let the conversion run for days trying it on two different computers without successful conclusion.
3. There is some mystery bug in ON1.
I will be very interested to see how this plays out on your Apple platform. That is one experiment that I did not try as my only Apple is a very old MacBook. If you have success, maybe I'll give it all another shot as I really would like to delete Lightroom from my computer.
Don't forget that "not responding" does not necessarily mean the program is hung. What it means is that the program is too busy to respond to UI events which has the appearance of a hung program. Often times that's exactly what has happened but not always. In this case it means the background tasks are consuming so many system resources there aren't enough left to respond to your actions.0
I had given up on Catalogues in Photo Raw, because they endlessly recatalogued themselves. Then I upgraded my PC by replacing the hard drives with SSDs. So I tried again. It took an afternoon to catalogue a 3 TB drive full of images. I set the preferences to store the smallest possible images. And, essentially, a few weeks on, and catalogues are still working great.
I have had a couple of lock ups with PR. When I checked Windows Task Manager, in both cases, Windows 10 was running a sneaky in the background update, and essentially Windows Update was demanding so much resources, that there was not enough left to run Photo Raw. i.e. it was Windows Update that was locking up my PC and not an issue with Photo Raw.0
One of the first things I do when I set up my Windows systems is turn off all automatic updates. I leave on the setting to tell me when there are new updates available but I do not let the system update things without my knowledge.0
I have had this same ongoing Not Responding issue since I first installed On1 2019. Upgrading to 2020, then 2020.1 and 2020.5 has not helped the problem at all. On my 4 core PC with integrated graphics, CPU use is NEVER over 10 percent in total, and usually far less while this is occurring. No threads appear to be spinning or hung. There is no network , disk , GPU load or CPU load, but On1 just never finishes whatever it is doing. I've let it run for days and it never completes. It happens in small folders and large.
Disabling all cataloging sometimes helps, but even then switching screens/modes in On1 (like switching from Browse to Edit, or attempting to export a file) causes delays of at least a minute, all while Resource Monitor shows no relevant activity on the computer. And is seems like each of the updates that I've installed has re-enabled cataloging. :(
I've sent several logs to support, and they haven't been able to provide any usable feedback about what I see.
There are obviously serious problems occurring for a number of users , and the developers are unable to identify what it is.
I switched from LR to On1 hoping for a better experience, but I haven't found it. I think Luminar will be my next raw experiment.0
Hi Carl Traub,
Luminar is nice as long as you don't require a DAM. Fairly stable. Their CEO made it clear that no tags/keywords etc are coming to Luminar in the near future. It has issue rendering layers which makes it useless for composites and has a plain brush for masking with no constraints and that makes masks useless unless they are straight ones.
On the other hand, the Luminar portrait/landscape/sky replacements are quite good. Hopefully, the upcoming Luminar AI builds on this platform and becomes even more useful as a plugin.
BTW, I have gone through most of these apps including open-source and Exposure/C1 etc and nothing comes close to LR in terms of a DAM or reliability so far...
Also, if you keep software up-to-date, ON1 is far more expensive than LR+PS. For example, I purchased an ON1 license barely 6 months ago and the upgrade cost is 1.5 times of the LR subscription for a year.0
LR+PS = 2 computers, but only one can run
On1 PR = 5 computers, maybe I am wrong but I think all 5 can work simultanously
That is correct Dariusz Kotarba, although LR does not seem to complain when, on occasion, I actually have it running on both my systems :)
As for ON1 PR, I would be very happy if it worked even on one system. For me, it is practically useless so far...Support, obviously, cannot do much excepting "it (bug) has been passed on to the dev team"...1
Yes, you can use PR on up to five different computers. (I regularly use both PR 2018 and PR 2020 on my laptops, because I like to keep work photos and hobby photos in different editors). Both versions of PR can run on the same laptop, at the same time. They share the same storage drives, and they don't fight or get upset.
Nitin and I do disagree on the merits of Photo Raw. All that I can say is, that on my PCs, Photo Raw is stable, reliable, and a joy to use. I have never lost any edits, due to Photo Raw, and I like the way that ON1 files work.
When I have had to raise issues with ON1 Support, and I have raised quite a few. With one exception, ON1 Support have always responded quickly, and with helpful advice.
-Sometimes they have identified bugs, which all did get solved in later updates.
-Sometimes they have identified faults with my graphics and/or other settings.
-ON1 Support have always managed to guide me to a solution to all of the problems. Except for with cataloguing.
Before I replaced the hard drives with solid state drives, I used to use my copy of Photo Raw, without cataloguing. Cataloguing ate up massive chunks of the system resources, and essentially everything ground to a halt. So, Photo Raw was much better when catalogues were ‘off’. Cataloguing was a bit of nightmare, and really ON1 Support could do little to resolve the situation. But, in the end, I took a close look at Windows Task Manager and realised that my laptops needed to be upgraded. (Their hard drives were simply not fast enough). A few days after the upgrade to SSDs, I tried cataloguing again, and it worked.
In hindsight, there was nothing that ON1 Support could have done to solve my problems with cataloguing. The problem was nothing to do with Photo Raw's Code. The problem was 100% to do with the performance weaknesses in my laptops.0
I use a fairly recent MacBook Pro David Price and since I am not a professional photographer, I don't really care a whole lot about minor issues here n there.
ON1 PR has serious bugs, acknowledged by support, which range from incorrect rendering, presets, cropping, selections, catalogs, searching, geo-tagging and quite a few more. There is nothing that support can do there...It goes to the devs and we hope that those are fixed in an update.0
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