On a Positive Note - ON1 Photo RAW 2020
I have been using ON1 2019 since February, and it has progressively improved with each update, bug fixes etc.
I, like many users, am looking for an alternative to Adobe Lightroom. What has stopped me switching so far?
1. Lack of ability to use Custom Camera Profiles created from X-Rite's ColorChecker
2. Lack of a decent Printing Module
It appears that ON1 2020 will address both of these, and I will be happy to pay for the upgrade, and hopefully have all I need to be able to ditch Adobe's subscription model.
What are you looking forward to?. Please,please keep it positive in this thread.
With all the problems of 2019 it's got me thinking long and hard about upgrading to 2020 or choosing something else.
It's a real shame as 2018 was quite good and I've invested many many hours in learning.2
After three force-quit lockups yesterday and two already today, I’m not looking forward to ON1 2020 at all. Instead I am looking back at ON1 2019 and wondering what the hell went wrong.
I know you asked for positives but it’s awfully hard to be positive when users who bought 2019 feel they are being abandoned. 2020 ought to be building on the success of its predecessor but when there is not much success to build on someone should be thinking long and hard about the logic of announcing a successor just yet.2
My feelings about the next ON1 PR 2020 release.
I brought ON1 PR 2019 at its beginning and installed all the sub releases until the actual 2019.6.
And to be franc, I love this software and the way I can develop my RAW files (some filters, the masks...).
I experimented (and I still do) numbers of bugs, crashes, slowdowns, UI inconsistencies..., and have to mention a not so good RAW developper, an awful noise reduction among other disappointments.
So much that, for the moment, I cannot consider my ON1 2019.6 as a real and reliable professional photo software, to many times I have to export/import TIF to overcome its weaknesses.
I neatly report all by bugs to the ON1 dev team (about 20 heavy bugs), suggest a lot of enhancements on the website, and I consider myself as a modest contributor to ON1 improvements.
ON1 plans to launch a major release in 2020. I don't know what's is exactly included in the package but I read that the price will be around 80$ for former buyers (instead of 100$). And ON1 roadmap is a major release every year (I guess around 80$).
Well, it's around 7$/month cost, each month, every year. Not so cheap. And although we can use an ancient ON1 release, not so far from Adobe policy (LR and PS and some cloud space).
Will I buy and use ON1 PR 2020?
If it is a totally stable, fast and consistent software with solid RAW development and NR, with no need to use LR, Capture One, DXO etc., I'll probably do and be happy.
But if I experiment half of the disagreements I had in 2019, I'm afraid I will not be a ON1 customer for long.0
I'm looking forward to reading about a future release of ON1 Photo Raw that does all that it's supposed to do reasonably well (you can't have everything!) at a point in time that's closer to the last full upgrade release date than it is is to the next one. Then I might give them some more money. Sorry, but that's as positive as I can get.0
Honestly I just wish they would get the basics right and solve the issues with the Keywording, Wacom Tablet and the latest issue I found was that the cache gets corrupted if there is more space used than the amount specified in preferences.
The sad thing about this is that the basic filters and develop settings are great, except for NR, pano & HDR & Focus aren't up to scratch, and portrait leaves a lot to be desired.
It really has been a disappointing journey from 6 to here. And many of us have persisted but the patience is wearing thin with 2019.2
Totally agree Don, with the good and the bad.
And theses days I had to leave ON1 aside, because on repeatedly freezing (colored wheel) almost each time I go from a photo to the next one in Dev module. Maybe because of the cache issue you mention. I’m doing this last work : managing and editing hundreds of Raw files, with other softwares. Sad.0
I was tired of Adobe LR and PS and paying monthly, so I dumped them and purchased ON1, Luminar, and Affinity. I'm a fine art photographer who uses mostly vintage film cameras, etc. I've encountered issues in all three of these products but so far have managed to get what I need out of them. I am, though, quite annoyed at having to pay for the upcoming upgrades in ON1 and Luminar. I'm definitely not going back to Adobe at this point, and I'll decide what to do as things progress.1
I am not sure what the issue is regarding paying for upgrades. EVERY single software package I have owned over the years has required me to pay for a major upgrade - repeat every one and many of them come out with major upgrades yearly. It is the users choice whether the upgrade is worth the price to upgrade or not. Most offer a reduced pricing for current owners as does On1 . If you scroll down to the bottom of this FAQ you can see the upgrade price for current users.0
ON1 needs to fix the keywording issues - 2019 was a step backwards from 2018. The greatest editing and developing program is no good if you can't rely on the Digital Asset Management (DAM) features to find, sort, create albums, etc. - so first thing is to get the DAM nailed down solid.
I have paid for a few versions now, and I'm hopeful that ON1 will become the Adobe replacement alternative for photographers. But first they need to nail down the basics - serious photographers have 10's of thousands of photos in their collection, we need to be able to manage them first - make the database solid and I'm sticking with ON1. If the next version isn't "solid" with regards to the DAM operations, then I'm going to have to move elsewhere.0
I do not want to develop software, I want to edit photos.
When it works, ON1 is currently the best app I have. When it doesn’t work, ON1 is a real pain. And it has been a real pain far too long for my liking.
So, when ON1 is having one of its hissy fits, I now turn to one of my other apps to finish the editing - much kinder on the blood pressure. There was a time when I thought that taking the time to report back to ON1’s support team would help solve the problem, but after a while I realised I was just wasting valuable editing time and feeding stuff into an apparent vacuum.
No doubt one of two things will eventually happen. Either ON1 will finally get its act together and solve its software reliability, or one of the other apps will improve its software capability to the point where I will no longer need ON1 at all. Either way, it can’t happen too soon.
Almost a year ago I paid ON1 for fully developed ‘professional’ software and I’ve yet to see that promise fulfilled.2
Totally agree Raymond. Excellent summary and I share your point of view.0
I’ve used a number of software apps way back in the day: Bibble Labs made one, and there was another that organized files, with no editing options. Both of these offered free upgrades for years. ON1 needs to reevaluate how to keep customers if their approach is to charge for software that has numerous issues and then charge an update cost within a year of the earlier release. How about a beta program? How about a 50% upgrade cost instead of 80%? Luminar is in the same boat with me. Glitchy software and charging an upgrade cost for their next release.1
I hope the ON1 team read this post. It's full of wise suggestions...
One thing seems to me very important is the RAW engine and ON1 have to improve that. I tested a lot of picture with several softwares and the RAW file opened in ON1 is less accurate in all situations. Less capacity to recover highlights, less micro contrast, less smoothness in luminosity transitions, etc.
And it's not a matter of further adjustments.
I hope ON1 2020 will fix that.
See screenshots with 3 softwares, 100% crop, all sliders at 0.1
I agree with some of the others here. I have tried very hard to love ON1. I own almost all processing software and when it works, it is my favorite hands down. But it is buggier than Lightroom and that is saying a lot. I think anyone that paid for 2019 should get free upgrades until you have a completely stable platform. Will I buy 2020? I don't think so.1
Michael, when we read all the posts and bugs reports and suggestions in ON1 website and Helpdesk, it's pretty easy to get the idea of what is excepted with ON1 2020. I'm surprised how the wishes are consistent and clear.
Let's try to be positive. What I expect in ON1 2020 is, above everything (I mean that AI or sun flare gadgets are totally optional...) definitive corrections of all the issues we had and have in 2019 versions. Plus optimisations so that ON1 can compete with major competition softwares in terms of: stability, speed, a quality RAW engine, good NR, etc.
I want to add theses thoughts: a RAW dev software targeting pros and prosumers (LR customers) has to be solid, fast, with a clear and consistent UI, customizable, with good and efficient tools (ON1 excellent masks for instance), offering all what a pro photographer needs in his/her workflow. What is the most necessary, a sun flare filter or working on a thousand images without a freeze or crash, a nice and efficient recovering of highlights, a handy UI with all necessary infos, etc. etc.
I mean there is a real border between nice fancy RAW dev (i.e. Luminar which I own, which is pretty good, but which I don't use...) and solid RAW dev (like LR which is on subscription and not really evolving anymore, like Capture One which is excellent but awfully expensive, like DXO PL).
What will be the path for ON1?
ON1 2019 is still today a promise, not an actuel pro software. But a paying promise, that's why asking customers for an annual fee to get the last version is not tenable today in these conditions.
Wish ON1 2020 will change that.1
Totally agree with a sentiment above - I want a reliable RAW editor with solid digital asset management that just works as expected allowing me to have productive editing sessions. I am not interested or willing to be a software tester / debugger. I had to uninstall versions of ON-1 2019 and reinstall older stable versions at least 4 times before ON-1 delivered a stable (And still not bug free) release. I don't want to repeat that with 2020.
I also agree - who needs another exotic rarely used filter or effect. Put the time into delivering a rock solid workspace for editing and managing my photos.
To be positive - I really like ON-1 approach to photo editing and management. I've spent a lot of time learning how to use after leaving LR in 2018.
I'm willing to give it another shot with 2020 but please get it right, have it work and be stable or I'm going to switch to another competitor with a product workflow & roadmap more supportive of my needs.1
I find it intriguing that no one mentioned using the 2020 Beta (2) to see what ON1 has done in the next release, it's free give it a shot. I generally agree with most of the comments regarding 2019 and have found that most of the base issues have been addressed in 2020. The speed going from edit to browse has improved dramatically and finaly the brushes work reliably. Weather it's worth $80 is up to you but at least look at the beta version before you decide.0
Jerry- I agree. I’ve tried the 2020 beta and it is faster and seems more stable. The preset sliders are a nice addition but that can be controlled in the editing mode. The print engine is nice but personally I use a RIP. At this point, I can’t rationalize the upgrade cost. I’ll wait for another version.0
I've loaded the 2020 beta 4 times and it still doesn't run. It takes forever to try to find files. It's mixing photos in the catalog. I'd like to buy it but it has to run better than this. It crashes during searching for files. Bummer!1
I'm currently researching ON1 to see whether to move to it for my DAM and editing needs. I'm currently a MediaPro user by Phase One has End of Life'd it so I'm in a desperate search of a DAM ... if it is a good editor also, that's icing.
I read the above thread and y'all seemed like you had been using it for a while and were debating whether to go to 2020 or bail. I'm curious to hear what y'all think of 2020.
If you were in my shoes and was considering ON1 for a DAM, would you suggest I run-away happy I dodged that bullet or do you think there is hope and it is worthwhile.
Thanks for any insight you can give.0
I bought ON1 with the thought that it would be my "one and only" DAM and photo editing software. I have been with it for several versions now and have paid for upgrading to the newer versions twice now. The whole DAM aspect was working moderately well in 2019 - unfortunately, the DAM seems to have taken a step backwards in the 2020 version. On the plus side, ON1 seems to have been very responsive towards making the software better overall and towards addressing user's needs in most every area - so I'm hopeful that the DAM will eventually get the attention it needs. But it's really quite frustrating right now. Use this forum and do your research, see what others say - look at other threads, not just this one. I'm committed to it and hoping for improved DAM capabilities in the future - but it ain't there now. If the DAM capabilities are your primary concern, you may want to at least hold off until this fall when the 2021 version is released.0
I have been using ON1 for several years now. This past winter I began using Capture One and I have never looked back. There are some things that I cannot do in C1, especially dealing with blending modes. But my editing is way faster and I see none of the bugs that seem to want to hang around, grow and popup in ON1 with each release. I still use ON1 but my renewal this fall is not a sure thing. I think that C1 can run circles around ON1 as far as general editing of a raw image. And I am certain that C1 handles Nikon NEF raw files better than any other editing software out there. So M L, I am not sure what MediaPro did for you, but Phase One has a great product in Capture One.0
George Hall: Thanks for the reply. The capabilities look good but reliability is a bigger concern for me. I don't want to spend hours adding/editing metadata only to have ON1 mess it up. I'm reading multiple places in the forum about keywords not getting written or getting deleted or deleting keywords but they don't really get deleted and even one where ON1 changed all of their keywords to upper case. Now some of those might have been pilot error, IDK, but it's enough to give me pause. I'd be willing to grow with them as far as adding DAM features, but I'm not willing to guinea pig my work on an unreliable DAM. I do understand the nature of forums that it is mainly a place for hearing about problems. I was just hearing a lot of keyword issues especially but most of them were issues in 2019 so I wasn't sure if 2020 had gotten more reliable.
Kevin Pinkerton: Thanks for the reply. C1 is where I'm pointing my research towards now. At this point I'm more concerned about DAM because that seems to be the harder nut to crack, but editor is next on my list and C1 is definitely on the lists for editing. I'm going to go checkout their DAM capabilities first.
MediaPro is/was a rock solid DAM that Phase One bought (originally it was iView who then sold out to Microsoft who didn't use it and Phase One bought it from them). It's very similar in capability to PhotoSupreme. In fact PhotoSupreme is at the top of my list for a DAM solution for functionality and reliability but I'm hesitating because as far as I can tell, it's a one-man shop. I'm not sure I want to anchor my workflow on software that has a large possibility to go away if he gets hit by a bus.
It's really a sad state of affairs that a piece of software that I've been using since 2005 runs circles around most of today's non-Adobe software. You would have thought more companies would have been able to get it right by now.0
I started using ON! as I didn't like Lightroom subscription plans. Adobe just doesn't listen to its users. I loved the full feature set of ON1 and got a lot of use out the blending options. Aperture stacking for macro was great! I also love the resizing software (genuine fractals) that I've used stand-alone for years. In the 2018 version, things started going south for me and ON1 loaded much slower and took a long time to find files. I worked tech support and ended up upgrading my operation system to Win 10 when it can out. In the 2019 version, things got even worse. Tech support advised me to upgrade my video card and I did. I took suggestions from several friends that work in repairing computers for 3 different businesses. I pick the best recommendation from them and I had told them I wanted ON1 to run. The graphics card tested out great but the improvement in ON1 performance was hardly noticeable. At that point, I gave up on ON1 and started using DXO Photolab. While it is not complete it does do some things really well. I downloaded the new version of ON1 2020. It took about 15 minutes to load and it too takes a very long time to find a file. It has to run better than that for me to go back to ON1.0
There are problems with the program dissecting hierarchical keywords into their components and add them as root level keywords. Then, the program will not find the images they came from. The keywords you actually assigned do work properly including the nested or hierarchical keyword. The redundant keywords are easy to find and delete from the keyword list though but they do have a tendency to return over time.
The issue you referred to where they were turned into uppercase has been resolved. The first release of the program with the keyword feature did not support mixed-case keywords and converted everything to uppercase. It no longer does that.
There are also some hardware requirements to get its best performance. A good graphics card is one. Another one is an SSD dedicated to ON1's scratch space and the browser cache for cataloging.0
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