going from browse into edit takes a long time the first time
Does anyone see this in the latest release of 2020?
If I am in browse and select a different raw image (like the one next to the one that is highlighted), and then go into edit, it takes 20 seconds. If I go back out of edit into browse and then go back into edit (on the same image), it takes about 3 seconds. The same amount of time it takes to go from image to image while staying in edit. This is repeatable for me under the following scenarios:
1) in browse.
2) Select a different image then the current one.
3) go into edit
4) wait 20 seconds before edit finishes preparing the image for me to edit.
1) in edit
2) go back to browse.
3) leave the same image selected, do nothing in browse basically.
4) go into edit
5) wait only about 3 seconds before edit finishes preparing the image for me to edit
1) in edit
2) use the arrow keys to go to the next or previous image in the directory
3) wait only about 3 seconds before edit finishes preparing the image for me to edit
Know that I have already optimized the SSDs, caches, etc and Nvidia driver as well as played with all of the ON1 performance settings. I have submitted a ticket, but I saw one other person at least had an issue and posted to the group here. Anyone else?
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Yep! I've just found that the first time into Edit takes about 20 secs. I therefore stay in Edit whilst working in Filmstrip mode, only going back to Browse when I've finished with that particular folder. This way, moving between images only takes about 3 secs.
However, I have found that sometimes, going from Browse to Edit can take only 3 secs, even though the image has not visited Edit during the current session. This is particularly the case if it's an image that hasn't been edited previously.
I have reported to Support during Beta phase, only to be told that I must accept some slowing if adjustments have been made. 17 secs is SOME slowing!!
I do feel that PR2020 is getting there and I can get good results without much ado.
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Are you guys aware that in the newest version of On1 that the image you're editing is cached to make it faster to switch images? If it's the first time you're opening it, it's not cached yet, so it will take longer. After it's loaded it should be pretty quick going to browse and back again.
Dan mentions this at the 2:20 mark in this video.
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Rick, so here is the kicker and I think this is what Dan alluded to... the caching is from filmstrip while currently in Edit mode. But if I go back to Browse, while in filmstrip mode, select another image on the filmstrip, even if I edited it recently, and then click on Edit, I see 20 seconds lag.
As long as this is expected behavior, and not something weird on my machine, I will go along to get along. :)
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I don't use the filmstrip much but I do see the caching working. I don't know how long the cache persists or what the limit is on how many files it will hold, so when you say 'edited recently' I'd want to know how recent. You should be able to switch between the last few images fairly quickly. Sooner or later something is going to get dumped from the cache and will have to be reloaded again.
If you think there is a bug while using filmstrip and browse together, by all means, contact support about it. I just wanted to make sure you all knew about the cache.
If anyone is contacting support on this, you could ask for some clarification on how it works. If you get some answers, post them here.
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I reported what appears to be a similar problem only yesterday. When switching from Browse to Edit, Photo Raw went to "Not responding". Following advise from ON1, it seems that this was caused by updating the graphics card (NVIDIA) after installing Photo Raw 2020. A clean reinstall following the instructions below appears to have fixed the problem.
Follow the steps outlined in this knowledge base article for backing up import presets, etc and uninstalling:
https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206500417-Uninstall-the-ON1-Software-Products
You can then download our current installer from here:
https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032741611-ON1-Photo-RAW-2020-Release-Notes-DownloadAlso see the following regarding the graphics card:
Good luck!
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PS. It might be better to raise this with ON1. Follow my suggestion at your risk!!!
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Dang Roger. That fixed it for me. I did not run that .vbs script as it said it would remove ALL ON1 products. I want 2019.6 to hang around for reference and to rebuild some of my export presets.
So I used the Windows Control Panel and uninstalled ON1 2020. Then I went into the appdata directory and removed all of the ON1 folders that said 2020. Common 2020, ON1 Develop 2020, etc. I did not want the reinstall to use anything that was left there.Then I downloaded the most recent ON1 installer, and ran it as administrator.
The installer migrated all of my stuff from ON1 2019 over, but I have done some reorganizing of my extras and I will reinstall them in a bit.
I did not do anything with the video driver. It is current as of a few days ago.
The 20 second delay is gone now. It might come back, and I am not sure what gets screwed up, but I at least have a solution.
Thanks,
Kevin
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Kevin, keep us updated on that. Would like to know if the problem returns after catalogues and some editing is done. It's an interesting solution.
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David, if you feel bold, you might want to do what Roger and I did. Save all of your presets and extras and make sure sidecars are enabled (via Roger's link) and then uninstall ON1 2020 via the Windows Control Panel uninstall. Then remove all of the appdata->ON1-> 2020 named directories. Then do a fresh install. If you still have 2019 on your computer, the fresh install will migrate everything and you will have only lost your Export Presets. At least that is all I lost when I upgraded to 2020.
I do not have any more 20 second delays. Everything acts like a 3 second delay or so now.
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Rick, my catalogs are back (they were migrated from 2019) and I was working in them to test the delays. But I have my fingers crossed and I will post if something goes south. I told the Stevie, the tech support guy, about what happened.
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Kevin, there's a new Nvidia driver available (4th Nov 2019). Wonder if the delay returns after you update your driver?
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David,
I installed that driver and that may have been the cause of the problem. It does seem that I would have noticed this delay before yesterday. However, one thing I did do was switch between the NVidia game driver to the studio driver. Or I may have been at the studio driver prior to the Nov 4th driver update, but I do know I installed the game driver on the 4th and then I decided to switch back to the studio driver right after that. So the driver model was toggled a couple of time. That might have caused some sort of disconnect with ON1. I will send a note to tech support about that.
Anyway, the nov 4th driver was already installed when I did the reinstall of ON1 today.
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I'm now terribly confused.
It does seem to me that the problem arises when switching from Browse to Edit. Sometimes there is a delay and sometimes there isn't. I think I'm right in saying that photos which have not been previously edited, do not suffer a delay. 'Versions' seem to always suffer the delay.
If I get into Edit, with or without a delay, I can work in Filmstrip mode and everything is very quick on all photos, including switching back to Browse.
However, even though I've just finished re-loading all the pre-sets saved over the years, I'll have a go at uninstalling/re-installing in the near future.
I was so unhappy with PR2019 that I bought another Photo processing software programme. It was a weird feeling being able to install a programme and for it to work properly. And the results were good. Trouble was that I much prefer PR methodology.
Guess we're just born to suffer.
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David, what you are seeing is exactly what I was seeing. I never tested the versions part. But now that the problem has been resolved, I just tested going from browse to edit on a version and I saw the normal, 3 second delay.
I had no problem saving all of my presets off using the Manage Extras, although it wanted to save them to my desktop and I had to work it a bit to save it to a subdirectory. The only thing I could not save was the LUTs that I added. I can see them and I do have the original ones, but there does not seem to be a way to save them using Manage Extras. I suspect the LUTs are stored in an ON1 directory, I just have not worried about it since I have the originals.
I know you cannot save Export presets and tech support verified that. So it pays to keep an older version of ON1 around so you can duplicate your Export presets.
After you use the Windows normal uninstall for ON1 2020, remove these the files marked with a red spot prior to re-installing ON1 2020. Or you can rename them if that makes you more comfortable. The install will recreate them. Obviously my user name will be different, but the directory structure will not be. If you remove all of the appData 2020 directories, I am sure that when you reinstall 2020, it will do the migration of all of your presets from 2019 automatically for you. It did for me. If you are not familiar with the appData directory, know that it is hidden by default, but completely accessible to you and it is associated with your username.
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Thanks Kevin, for such concise instructions. After a good night's sleep, I bit the bullet and re-installed. And Voila! the 20 second delay has gone. Even 'Versions' load quickly now. Wonder why On1 is the only software that I have come across that requires this kind of pantomime to get it running properly.
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David, I have my suspicions on why ON1 has more of these touchy issues. I suspect they have a smaller core of software developers. They use Qt as a platform to get mutli-operating software support (Mac, Unix, Windows, Android, etc). And they are tweaking things that Qt is not probably geared for such as GPU coding and Wacom tablet stuff. The Wacom issues I still see are really more of a Wacom and Windows issue and even Adobe software has the same issues. I do not know if Adobe uses Qt, but I suspect not. Many, many commercial software products use Qt. I even used it when I was a programmer for the Navy.
I am glad reinstalling is the solution that worked for us this time. I am not sure I would want to reinstall it 8 months from now. Doing at the beginning of my 2020 workflow is ok.
Did you happen to switch between NVidia driver models when you updated your driver and caused ON1 to have these issues? Studio vs Game driver? NVidia puts out new drivers frequently and I hope to never see this cause problems again with ON1.
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I suspect that you are right Kevin.
Forgot to ask you about studio/games driver. I always load games because that's what Nvidia offer up front. Just gone to Nv web site and found the option to download the Studio version. Can you advise what the difference is (I don't play games - too busy trying to get PR to work) and which you would advise using.
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I could not tell any difference in PR, but if you listen to what NVidia says, the Studio version is tweaked for some photo editing and movie editing software. It lists some of them, and of course ON1 is not popular enough to be listed. I google the web yesterday and about the only thing I saw was that the Studio version did everything the Game version did, and then some. I am using Studio, but I did swap them out the other day and could not really tell. But I was dealing with the 20 second delay as well then. If you have NVidia GEForce Experience sofware loaded on your computer, you can tell it which one you want and it will remember it and tell you when a new release is available. Here is a screen snapshot of where to look for the setting. If you switch it from Games to Studio let me know if you break PR.
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Thanks again Kevin. Fired up with either bravery or foolhardiness, I loaded the Studio driver and - STILL NO DELAY!! Yippeee.
I'm hoping using the Studio driver will entail fewer updates.
Now to get on with some post processing.
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Interesting! So perhaps when ON1 is installed, something queries the OpenGL interface and responds by setting some internal setting in PR. And somehow whatever it was basing that setting on got changed in the latest version of Nvidia drivers. That query during the install might explain why re-installing the same driver after the ON1 install did not break anything. But that is just guessing. I am just happy the performance issue is gone now. That 20 second delay was painful.
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David Williams, the Nvidia Studio driver gets update much less frequently than the Game driver does.
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I can't find a rhyme or reason for the 20 second delay either. Cache and program are running off an M.2 SSD which is extremely fast. Video card is nVidia 1060 with 6 Gb and CPU is 1 year old i7.
Was just about to do a complete wipe of PR and reinstall after I finish a project this week but I just quit PR and restarted it and the problem seems to be gone. Not sure if it is a memory leak or what.
I also noticed the cache file is about 30 Gb and exists for 2019 and 2020 even though I uninstalled 2019.
I enjoy using PR 2020 but bugs like this are very, very frustrating.
Spoke to soon...Went to another previously edited photo from Browse -> Edit and I am stuck looking at a spinning blue wheel and a Not Responding on the top line of my window. 30 seconds and it has not loaded.
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William,
Follow Kevin's instructions carefully. Make sure you load the latest Studio driver from Nvidia, empty the cache before uninstalling, then, after uninstalling from Control Panel, go into User/(William)/On1/Appdata/Roaming and delete all reference to PR2020. I also deleted any reference to earlier PR versions.
After re-installing from the On1 site, add the folders to the Catalogue panel and give it time, about an hour, to devote all the computing power to the task of cataloguing the folders. Task Master will help to show progress in this respect.
Re-installing all the Reward Presets etc. is tedious but no big deal.
I was a 'doubter' but it does work and brings smoother brushing. PR is now a joy to use - until the next glitch shows up.
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David, I took your suggestions and after deleting all references to On1 and then reinstalling it does seem to work as expected.
Thank you for the suggestion.
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There is another thread here that talked about slow switching from Browse to Edit modes. One user there found it was only happening when opening images that had a Curves or Tone Enhancer filter applied to it and that it was somehow related to some kind of corruption in the ExportCache folder which is found at C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\ON1\ON1 Photo RAW 2020\. Deleting that one folder solved the problem for me. The program will rebuild it as you continue to use the software.
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Now that there is a newer version out (Dec 6, 2019), if anyone can see that this problem has been fixed, please let us know.
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