Canvas not showing correct on new raw file
First of all, I am a new ON1 user....actually I've been a member for a couple years but haven't used it much. I'm getting back into photography and I'm trying to figure out how to use ON1.
So I started with a picture of one of my wife's paintings. We did some simple editing (change canvas size, transform, white balance. The picture got all screwed up - wrong image size, wrong ppi, etc. I got seriously confused so I closed ON1, deleted the ON1 files, and tried to start again with my .ORF Olympus raw file.
This is what I now see when I start ON1 to edit my raw file:
Notice that the image is offset in the canvas and can't be moved. Also notice that the image in the filmstrip is ok. The .ORF file is in a folder with no other images. All the sidecar files have been deleted.
I have my original raw file stored in another location. If I copy the file to the folder where ON1 is currently using, the image is still screwed up. This is with a new raw file. However, if I navigate ON1 to look into my backup folder, the image in ON1 is ok.
So what's going on? It's like there are invisible files in my working folder that ON1 is looking at which screws up the image. Or maybe it's something else.
I am running ON1 on an iMac running Catalina 10.15.2. I am running ON1 2019.7.
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Have you tried using the Reset All command under the Settings menu? Edits are stored in an internal database as well as the .on1 sidecar files. Deleting the sidecar will not remove them from the database. Reset all will clear the database as well as the .on1 sidecar.
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Hey Brian, thanks for your quick comment. Yes I've almost wore out the Reset All button.
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Man that seems strange to have edits stored in multiple places. Seems like there are a lot of ways that can get messed up...like I did when I deleted the sidecar files.
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The use of sidecars is optional and can be turned off so there must be another mechanism for tracking the edits. Not everyone uses them.
I cannot tell from the screenshot if the entire image is visible in the main window. If it is then you can use the File > Resize Canvas command to set it to the size of the image.
If the image is being offset on the canvas so part of it is not visible I would try moving the image file to a new location in the Finder. That should break the connection between the stored edits and the image file. Make some basic edits then in ON1's browser move it back to its original location. That might clear it up.
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Just a thought, instead of opening the photo in Edit, try opening it in Layers. That might reset the canvas size (or it might not but it's worth a try)
I find the Reset All sometimes ignores the crop setting and I'm not surprised if it doesn't fix the canvas.
Brian's suggestion above will work, so will renaming the file outside of On1. Once you get that fixed, if you need help with your original goal, let us know.
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Thank you for your comments. Simply renaming the raw file in its original location did not work. The image was still offset in the canvas and could not be moved. So I moved it to a new location and that fixed the problem. As Brian suggested, I then edited the file and then in ON1, I moved it to the folder it was in originally. Problem stayed fixed! So thank you both for helping me.
The bigger problem is why did it get so screwed up to begin with. Here is what I am trying to do. I am about to have this picture printed on a 24" x 36" canvas. However the frame is a bit smaller than that and I am also going to have a mat in the frame. I need the main image to be 17.75" x 25.5". In summary, I want a 17.75" x 25.5" image more or less centered in a 24" x 36" canvas. I also need to adjust white balance and perhaps a little other tweaking.
Keeping in mind I am an ON1 novice, here is my workflow.
1. Open the raw file
2. Using File/Canvas Size, expand the canvas to 17.75 x 25.5. Set resolution to 300 dpi.
3. Using transform button in toolbar, resize the image to fill the entire canvas. Move image around to best position it in the canvas. Make whatever white balance and color corrections are needed. (Everything works ok to this point.)
How do I save? It seems the only way to save is to exit Edit mode and go back to Browse mode. Is it a good workflow to periodically exit Edit mode to force a save?
I also notice that when I use the eyedrop tool next to Color in the Tone and Color section of Develop, it also changes Details, Lens Correction, and Transform. I see these changes in the Info tab but not in the History tab.
How can I prevent ON1 from making these changes at the same time when I only want to adjust white balance?
Now I need to expand the canvas to 24x36 and fill the new canvas area with color. I do this by creating a new layer under the image layer, setting its size to 24x36, making it white. This is where problems start.
4. Duplicate the image layer, It will be positioned on top the main layer. Move it to underneath.
5. Deselect the main layer and select only the new background layer. Using File/Canvas Size, change the canvas size on this layer to 24x36. Leave the resolution set to 300 dpi. Using the transform tool, make the image to fill the new canvas and apply the change.
6. I found on the web a procedure to the invert mask to change the color of the image to white. I was unable to make this work. I don't understand masking. So instead I go to Local Adjustments, select Paint with Color, pick a white color, and use a large brush to paint the entire image white. Now when I turn on my top layer, I see my image in a 24x36 area that is white. I also check the canvas size and verified it was 24x36 at 300 dpi. Everything is good so far.
Is there no way to put a ruller on the screen to verify the image size is correct? I hope the image size did not somehow change. I wish I could see a ruler.
7. I now exit Edit mode by selecting Browse. Back in the Browser, I am looking at my original raw file, so I select my new image with the 24x36 border. I look in the info pane and see the file size is 7200x10800@72 dpi? What's going on here? the 7200x10800 is right, but the 72 dpi is incorrect. It should be 300 dpi. This is where I think I gave up last night and tried to delete the sidecar files and start again. This time, Im pressing on.
8. Last step, I export to high resolution jpg using File / Export. Hmmm...the resolution is right now....7200x10800@300 dpi. Looks like the info pane has a bug. In the sharpening section I don't see Canvas so I select Print. I leave everything else to defaults including Adobe RGB(1998). When would I change this? At first I couldn't find the file. ON1 put it in a new folder. Seems like it should have put it in the folder containing my raw image.
9. When I use Get Info to look at my new jpg, things at first look ok. The dimensions are 7200x10800. That's the size it should be for a 24x36@300 dpi. But is the image the right size for the mat? It's pretty important that this be right. The image is supposed to be 17.75x25.5. I sure wish I had been able to use a ruler to check it in ON1.
When I view the image in Preview and set it to fit on the screen, and then I measure the image with a tape measure, here is what I get. The overall image, including the white border is 8.75" x 13.25". The main image is 7" x 9.25". I don't believe the image is the right size. Here is my math.
24x36 is a ratio of .66666. 8.75*13.25 is a ratio of .660. Close enough I guess.
17.75x25.5 is a ratio of .696 7x9.25 is a ratio of .756. Not good. It appears the important part of the image is incorrectly sized. The image is wider than it should be by about 8%.
Looking in the Y direction only....25.5 / 36 is a ratio of .708. That's the ratio of the 36" canvas height vs the 25.5 image height. The actual measured ratio is 9.25 / 13.25 and the ratio is .698. Close enough I guess.
Looking in the X direction only 17.75 / 24 is a ratio of .740. The actual measurement ratio is 7 / 8.75 = .800. The X dimension is off, again by 8%.
I don't know. Maybe the produced image is good enough. It sure seems to be 8% too wide. A little more of my image will be hidden behind the mat than I wanted. I have no idea how to fix this so maybe I will have to use it the way it is.
I also have Affinity. When I make this image using Affinity, the ratios are correct. But Affinity does not set the white balance correctly. So I want to figure out what I am doing wrong with ON1 or if this is cause by a bug, I want to try to get it fixed
Anyone have any suggestions?
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There are a lot of questions all at once. I can comment on a few of them...
2) The canvas should be set to the final size including the border (24x36) because all of your work happen on the canvas and you need that space for the borders.
3) To fill the canvas with your image, just click the fill icon in Transform
yes, if your project is complicated it wouldn't hurt to force a save once in a while by going back to browse. You could even duplicate the file for further edits which would give you a place to go back to if you needed to.
The entry in the info pane is just noting that the photo was developed, I don't see any values in there, they are all just whatever was set when you used the dropper, they could all be zero.
It looks like you're trying to change the canvas for each layer. That's not how it works. All of the layers sit on top of the same canvas. There is only one and it should be big enough to create the final product.
6) when you're making the color fill layer, instead of painting, just invert the mask. It's quicker and will provide an even layer with no brush gaps. On1 doesn't have a ruler but it's been requested for a future version. All you really have at the moment is the pixel count at the top of the transform screen.
7) There are other posts here that describe the image resolution. If I understand correctly, it doesn't matter for anything but the printer. Just ignore it while you're editing.
9) If your canvas is 24x36 RATIO (not size) and your image is placed properly inside of it, then when you print at 24x36 inches it should all come out right as long as you have enough pixels for that size of a print.
check page 161 of the user guide 'How big can I print' for refrence
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The dpi value shown in the info dialog is worthless, don't worry about that. Images do not have any DPI, they have a pixel dimensions. DPI comes into play when they are displayed on screen or printed. 3000px x 4500px has the same aspect ratio. At 100 dpi it creates a 30"x45" image. At 300dpi it creates a 10"x15" image.
Have you tried just doing your editing then using the Resize function to export it to whatever dimensions & dpi you need? Skips the entire need to resize the canvas (it does that for you) and having to fill it with anything. It's what I use to export TIFFs to send to my printers.
It's going to take me a little while to digest what all you've done above and try to replicate the problems you've encountered so I'll defer until then any opinions on the possibility of there being a bug. :)
If you are a Plus member, Hudson Henry has a course called "Shoot to Print" that talks about how he produces his prints.
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Rick,
I'm afraid I don't understand. I don't see how I can set the canvas to 24x36 and resize my image to fill it. If I do that I now have a 24x36 image and that is too big for my mat whose opening is a little less than 17.75x25.5.
Are you saying I can somehow put a 17x25 image on a 24x36 canvas, all in one layer?
Can you give me a link on how to use the invert function to create a layer with a solid color? I found that idea on the web somewhere but when I click on the invert button, my image disappeared, if I recall correctly. It sure didn't become a solid color.
Brian
Where do I find this resize function you mention? Are you referring to the Resize app?
I am a plus member. I will look at his course.
Thank you both for taking to time to help!
Clark
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Another method of creating a solid color fill is to add a Curves layer then adjust the curves as needed. If you want white drag the left corner control in the All channel to the top. If you want a colored fill, say red, make the Blue & Green curves flat by bringing down the right side of the slope to 0 turning those channels off. With practice you can get whatever color you want.
The Resize function is at the top of the bottom right column of tools.
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Brian
I just played with the Resize function. It's pretty nice. However I don't understand how I can use the Resize function to do what I need. I need a roughly 17x25 image in the center of a 24x36 canvas. I looked at the Resize function and while I see I could rescale the image to 24x36, I don't see how I can rescale to 17x25 in the middle of a 24x36 canvas.
As far as I can tell, the only way to do that in ON1 is with two layers. One containing the 17x25 image and one containing the 24x36 solid white (or some other color) background.
However, as I showed, when I did that my dimensions came out wrong.
Clark
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Why does the print need such a large border? Won't a white matte around the print work? The print can be hinge mounted to the back of the matte (that's what I did just last week putting a 12x24 inch print into 18x24 inch frame giving it a letterbox appearance) or mounted on the proper size foam core backing to fit the frame. Since the matte is going to cover the white border anyhow, why struggle to create that border in the first place?
I'm not trying to be difficult, rather trying to eliminate your difficulties. :)
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It does sound odd, doesn’t it. Here’s what’s happening. We have a frame and mat we like. Both match the image colors. The mat opening is 17.25x25.0.
We are trying a new printer that prints on canvas. They are having a big sale on canvas prints. The smallest print size that would fit my mat is 20x36 but that size for some reason is more expensive than their 24x36 print. The 24x36 print is less than $40! That’s why I am using a 24x36 print. We will chop the print down to fit in the frame
But the image needs to be shrunk to a little more than the mat opening so we can see the entire image.
The printer is www.simplecanvasprints.com.
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I did what you want in about 5 minutes. I think. :)
- Create a New Canvas of 24x36 inches.
- Drop your image into it.
- Duplicate the Layer.
- On the bottom Layer, add a Curves Effect and drag up the left side of the All channel to turn it all white.
- On the top Layer, use the Transform Tool (not the Transform tab in the right side panel) to set the image size to 17.25x25.0 inches. The image stays centered in the frame.
- There is no 6, you're done. ;)
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FWIW, I would edit the photo first. Then you can use the procedure above to create whatever size image you want with any sized border you need. If you set everything up first you'll either have to modify the original or re-edit the image to get a different sized print or border.
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That is awesome! I am impressed.
Frankly, I have been struggling with deciding to pay for another year of ON1 Plus. I've let my photography wane for the past year or two and probably haven't spent 20 minutes on that hobby over that time. Then a couple days ago my wife said "We should take a picture of my water color, enlarge it, and put it up on the wall." So that got me back into Affinity and ON1. It's been a bit of a struggle but it's also been fun.
And then you come along with this awesome technique that makes it almost trivial to do what I need.
So I've decided, I'm going to resubscribe to ON1 Plus, I've downloaded the manual for 2020, and I've also downloaded the Foundations course.
Thank you for your help!
Clark
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Just for completeness, the PPI (to give it its correct name) is only used for printing and as mentioned above can be ignored until such time as you actually want to produce a print. All you need to be concerned about is the image size in pixels. When you view an image electronically it is displayed at the native resolution of whatever screen you're using, which neither knows nor cares what figure you've put in the PPI which is just a text field in the metadata and has no effect whatsoever on the size or quality of your image. It is for printing only.
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