Lost my recent edits
In the midst of using the AI Mask feature, On1 2020 froze on me and I had to use Force Quit. When I reopened the programme, none of the edits I have done in the past few days are showing. These are all JPG files and represent all the photos I have stored on my MacBook Pro from 2014—almost 500 all told.The Sidecar files are all there and indicate that they have been updated in the past week.
The photos are on an external SSD and the caches on another.
I assume there is a way of restoring the edits via the sidecars. What is it please?
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Ray, in the attached post you will see someone had the same issue. It looks like the person with the issue reinstalled version 14.1.0.8739 and it resolved the issue. See the last 3 or 4 posts in this thread https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360054788912
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Ray, you should also contact support. You should not be losing edits like that.
https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Make sure you explain in detail what's happening and also include the info requested here..
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Thanks for pointing me to that thread David. I had not seen it.
I tried replacing a sidecar file with one from my latest backup prior to the crash, but it didn't restore the edits. The next step will be to look at reinstalling the older version of On1, although I have no idea where to find it or how to go about it. I will post on the other thread and also send a ticket to support.
Some of my more recent photos from late last year and so far this year are also not showing the edits. None of them have been worked on since the upgrade on April 27th as far as I recall!
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I was thinking about this and if it is a matter of the database loosing track of the info and all the edits are still in the .on1 sidecar file you should be able to remover the missing edits by moving the image file and its sidecars to a new location. I would quit the program, make the move perhaps placing those files inside a new sub-folder, then restart the program. When it sees the new folder and its contents it should reconnect the image with the edits. After that the image could be moved back to its original location from within the program.
If anyone can confirm this works that is also something support should be told about.
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What bothers me is that even if the database lost track somehow, simply detecting the sidecars in the folder should correct the problem automatically.
I've often wonderd how the priorities work in On1. Does a sidecar have priority over the database or the other way around? If you take a backup of a photo and overwrite an existing photo will the backup sidecar update the Database or will the Database update the sidecar?
You would think the sidecar has priority or it wouldn't be much of a backup, but then weird things like this happen.
Ray, I hope you have a backup of all of those files before you start playing with them.
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Ray, support should be able to give you a link to the previous version if you want to try to reinstall it to see if it helps.
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It seems to me that the sidecars must have priority. If you have a shared hard drive and you work on the same photo on multiple machines the newly updated sidecar would have to override whatever the database says when you go to the 2nd system after editing on the 1st. And the other way, more edits on machine 2 means machine 1's database is now out of date. Maybe they date & timestamp the database entries to compare with the .on1 file's modified date.
I have restored lost edits from backed up sidecars. The problem is you have to notice the loss before the next backup when the sidecar looses the edit info as has happened to me.
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Brian, your idea seems to have worked. Thank you.
I moved the images and sidecars from one of the folders affected to a new sub-folder within it, which I named 'On1 Test'. I then re-opened On1 and the edits have all been restored. I decided, for the time being at any rate, to leave the 'On1 Test' folder where it is. This means I can duplicate the process and know which folders I have restored.
When I hear back from Support I will report your work-round.
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Don't wait for them to get back to you. By telling them now you can save the engineers time from looking down wrong paths.
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You can update your support request by clicking your name at the top of this page and selecting 'See my requests'. You should be able to open the support request and add new info directly to it.
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I have told Support about Brian's work-round.
I think my basic problem is that the 8GB of RAM in my 2017 MacBook Pro is not sufficient too handle intensive tasks like AI Mask!
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I'm in contact with the engineers about this. They think it only affects external drives on Macs. Can anyone confirm or disprove that hypothesis? Any Windows users seeing this or anyone with their photos on an internal drive?
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I haven't seen it myself. All of my work in on an internal drive.
Also, I have only 8GB ram on my Windows PC and everything works. Not at warp speed, but it works.
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I haven't seen it either. Win 10, all work done on internal drives. I have 6 internal drives on my desktop :-)
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The engineers have identified a bug and have a fix but they want to do more testing to see that nothing else breaks with the fix. They still want feedback from anyone experiencing this issue.
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I have heard from Stevie in Support, so he has further evidence of the bug from me.
I can confirm that moving the images and sidecars back to their original location within On1 preserves the edits, as Brian suggested.
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A variation on the theme... Yesterday moved an edited raw file and an associated version further edited for soft proofing. It was from a folder in an external ssd to another folder in the same ssd. Edits all lost. Made a duplicate of the raw file after checking reset all. Edits with the copy works fine so far. So as is my way in life I just deleted the bad raw file thinking to hope for the best. But oddly the version file remained, showing in browse, and I can’t get rid if it. It just shows as a big black spot on the screen and doesn’t open in edit.
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- How did you go about moving this file?
- I would have tried moving it back before anything else.
- Why would you think the RAW is bad?
- Are you able to restore the deleted RAW?
- If you can post a screenshot of your Browser, it might help to see what's going on.
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- Selected v1 and rw2 files with browse and dragged 2 files in browse to an existing folder on the same external ssd.
- Wanted a fresh start on editing the image and duplicated it on hope that it would give me fresh start from possible catalog problems, esp since fossils from the v1 were hanging around. Liked the image and wanted to save it if possible.
- Didn’t know about movin it back till I found this thread. They should put that in the manual (;
- Possible to restore. Good idea. Noticed in finder before deleting it in browse that there was an ON1 file and XMP file. Will dig thru my trash and or backups tomorrow. I was going to try to duplicate the problem to see if it was chronic then send in a ticket to support.
- Screen shot tomorrow.
Thanks for your attention to this. I can put up with most of the quirks in ON1 but can’t worry about. reliability of DAM. FWIW the duplicate tolerated a complex edit that led to a good print and tiff export. So I just lost a couple hours.
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Rick, A day late and a dollar.... Here is some good news and bad news.
Good news is I set up a test moving an edited file between folders on the same external SSD drive. Drag/Dropped the edited raw file to the new folder and it properly brought along the .xmp and .on1 files with the .rw2 edited file per Finder. So my confidence is a bit restored.
Bad news is I restored the problem files * P1067476.RW2 and associated ON1 and XMP files. The edits were still gone. Note also the Black image for file P1067476 P100 LU101.RW2 (my soft proofed print file versioned from edited file before I changed folders.). I cannot see, open or get rid of it. It does not show up in finder as you can see. The SSD drive is catalogued.
So not the end of the world if it is a one time incident, but it gives me pause.
Jerry
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Jerry, that's very strange. The Black file doesn't have a version badge on it, so I don't know what's going on there.
I would suggest that you send this screenshot to On1 Support and see what they say about it.
You can open a support request here...
https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Make sure you describe exactly what's happening, attach the screenshot above and also a copy of the On1 logs.
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I've found the database can become disconnected from the image files. It can retain information for files that have been removed as is the case here, and it can not connect to things that are there.
Definitely report this to support but I think you may be able to get rid of the empty preview space by creating a file with that exact name and extension. Quit ON1 then in the Finder duplicate one of your other .RW2 files then rename it with the same name & lowercase .rw2 extension. It's the lowercase extension that tripped it up I think. I found one like that myself the other day.
Anyhow, once you have a file with the missing name relaunch the program and it should reconnect the database with the new image file allowing you to delete it from the Browser.
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Rick, Brian,
Thanks again. As my skill grows, my expectations and my resulting dependency on ON1 also grows. Bugs are piling up and shake my confidence. Will wait for June update and reassess ON1. Like they say in fine craftsmanship, "good enough isn't". Get the basics right please ON1. Maybe make a "360" turn.Just to be clear on my posts....
- The unremovable file was a v1 file I renamed as is my practice to document the Canon printer and Luster paper it was destined for.
- To be clear I moved the 3 files from the trash back to the second folder, not to the original folder.
- I am wary about mucking about any more so will not try moving them back to the original folder.
- Will write up a support ticket.
- Upper and lower case suffixes the root of a file naming problem? Create a dummy file to fix a problem? Thanks for the suggestions, but not up to that. Will wait for a June fix.- It looks like Export and the Create Version command produce lower case suffixes, not me.
Don't misunderstand my griping, I do very much appreciate you guys and all the fine help you have given me and others over the last 18 months. It is a remarkable service. Just venting because ON1 is almost perfect for me and I don't want to change...
Would it be safer for now to not use the catalog? If so is there a way to "un-catalog" my drive/folders? I could try to use keywords to backup the few albums I have, altho I don't trust keywords much either. Maybe just create new folders. Storage is cheap.
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I missed that the blank preview was for a version so my suggestion of creating a file with the same name will not work. However, I can guarantee that moving all the associated images out of that folder to somewhere like your Desktop where ON1 cannot see it by default then moving it all back in again will clear that up.
I went through the exact same thing yesterday with some of my files. I took the time to clean out all of the embedded keywords and metadata and get rid of database entries that were no longer connected properly to reality and I'm pretty happy with it now. It took a lot of work and understanding of how the program handles changes to metadata with multiple selections but I did get it all straightened out.
I don't know where the lower case extensions come from but they seem to trip up the program occasionally.
I'm planning on writing something about what I learned and how I went about getting it all cleaned out that I'll post in the next couple of days. I've got some notes but I need to let it all gel a bit so it is understandable.
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It looks like the Export and the Create Version command routinely produce lower case suffixes
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My original issue occurred again following another Force Quit. I had to initiate to the work-round again to resolve it, since Support have not come back yet too indicate when there will be a proper fix.
However, I have have now encountered another, similar issue. When I reopened On1 yesterday, my most recent half dozen to dozen edits from the previous session (which I had quite normally) had not been saved. I can't recall if they were all the edits from that session or not, since I have to quit O1 quite often in order to work with Luminar 4 or Topaz, not having enough RAM for them all to be open at once. I should say that I have almost always used the 'forward' key to move to the next edit during a session. Is it more advisable to hit the 'done' button to be sure that each edit is saved individually?
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Ray,
You're the first person that I'm aware of who uses the forward key while in Edit. I just tried a few things and yes, it looks like edits are saved ok using that method. Personally, I use Done after every edit to make sure the file is saved properly. I even use Done occasionally during an edit in case something were to go wrong I won't lose everything.
When you're quitting On1, I'd suggest that you do that from Browse. Hitting Quit in Edit should save everything anyway, but going to Browse first makes sure files are saved.
Of course, if you kill the program (force quit) for any reason you can expect to lose something.
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Since this is now happening with amazing regularity and it is getting boring moving files to a temp folder then back again(sometimes with edits lost for good sometimes not), how do a find the previous version of On1, so I can install that and see if things work better? Would I need to do a complete uninstall via Appcleaner or would I lose even more as a result? The photos and their sidecars are all on an external SSD.
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If you didn't save a copy of the previous installer, you'll have to contact On1 for it. All download links at On1 are always for the newest version.
I don't think you'd need to do a clean install and if you did, yes, you'd lose any extras installed, presets etc.
I wouldn't do that unless something broke during the downgrade. If you're contacting On1 anyway, ask them.
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It's all beyond tedious. I was really hoping to be moving away from Lightroom. In 5 years or so of using LR I don't recall ever having had a serious crash or other major issue. In 5 months with On1, something seems to go wrong on a weekly basis.
I wonder if I should reinstall the current version for the time being, to see if it stops acting up. I am finding it frustrating constantly having to move files and their sidecars to new folders then back again in order for edits to be recognised, This is happening on an almost daily basis and if I didn't have a lot of free lockdown time I'd be even more out of patience than I am already.
Please advise how I reinstall the current version of the programme, what needs to be deleted and what kept. Thanks.
I am still waiting for further advice from Support.
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