Advanced searching in cataloged folders very very slow
Answered
If I click on "Advanced search" with "search cataloged folders" ON1 goes and starts searching before I do anything else and spends a couple of minutes searching and is unusable in that time. The catalog files are on a 500gb SSD as is the Perfectbrowsercache. If ON1 advanced search is on "Filter current photos" it runs perfectly well. Any clues as to why?
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Because it has to load all the cached info for all the cataloged images in order to search through it. I make it a point to check the setting and leave it at Filter Current Photos until I have the search parameters set then I'll switch to searching the entire catalog.
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I would like to see Advanced search have a 'GO' button so that you have a chance to set it up the way you want before it starts searching. As it is, even if you're searching just one folder, the search restarts every time you type a character.
If I remember. Maybe I'll add that suggestion to the ideas page.
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I'd support having a "Go" or "Enter" command for searching, otherwise the search commences as soon as you start typing. In other words, as soon as you type the first letter. The text entry is then extremely slow since you are fighting the "Search" which has already started.
I'm quite meticulous about titling and keywording my images after I have downloaded them.
However, I have discovered another problem with searching.
I have a lot of images taken in London along the River Thames, which are keyworded as river thames, tower bridge.
I also have another location named "Stowe"
The other day I was searching for "Stowe" and images of the River Thames kept popping up.
It appears that search is ignoring the comma separator in the "Keywords" and it is misreading river thames, tower bridge and ignoring the separating comma between the two keywords. In other words it is taking the keywords river thame[s,towe]r bridge and reading them as "stowe" So in addition to the wanted Stowe images, I get a whole load of unwanted images of river thames, tower bridge.Is this a program bug?
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Commas are not allowed in keywords, they are used to separate individual keywords so the importer ignores them. You cannot even enter a comma when creating a new keyword.
If you look in the Metadata panel's Keywords field for an image in which you've used a comma you'll see the actual keywords that were saved for that image. I'd suggest using a different separator character, perhaps a dash, or, make them hierarchical as in "river thames < tower bridge"
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Yes, The commas are the separators generated when you add a keyword.
I do not enter commas as part of my keywording, I enter the keyword in the keyword box and press enter.
If I'm adding to existing keywords, the program automatically generates the comma separator.The search facility, in this instance, fails to recognise the comma as a keyword separator.
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Oh, I see, you are searching for multiple keywords and using the comma to separate them in the search terms. I misunderstood and was under the impression that the commas were part of the keyword you are searching for. My bad. :)
To search for multiple keywords use the Add button in the Advanced options and put one keyword in each search field. You can set the Match All Criteria to Match Any Criteria for an "or" search.
The Advanced Search panel is discussed on page 33 in the User guide.
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No.
I am searching for a single keyword ("stowe") and the program is ignoring the comma separator between river thames,tower bridge and interpreting the result as "stowe"
So it's treating the "S" of thames and the "TOWE" of tower bridge as if they are one word, not separated by a comma.
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I'm having a hard time visualizing where the problem comma is located, sorry. Perhaps if you can post some screen shots like I've done above. (You don't have to do all the markup. ;)) One that shows an image that should be found by your search and another showing the results of the search. Make sure the Metadata panel is visible so I can see the keywords applied to those images. Once I can see what we're working with I'll be better able to help.
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The search command:
So I am searching my cataloged folders for the word "stowe"
Adjacent you can see one of the images it has found which is keyworded river thames, tower bridge. So it has taken the "s" from thames and the "towe" from tower bridge and decided that's what I am searching for, which it is not what I wantIn addition, I've noticed a load more unwanted images that the search has produced, this time the keyword is felixstowe.
So the search is finding other instances of "stowe" and ignoring the fact that they are part of a longer word.
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What happens if you change the search parameter from ≥ to =? Click the parameter to see a list of choices.
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It's exactly the same if set to "Equal"
It still finds lots of extra images.
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I'm going to have to refer you to support as I'm out of ideas. I expect however, that they are going to report that this is by design.
There are a lot of suggestions on the Project page for changes to the search system. You might want to take a look through them and vote for those that are in line with what you'd like to see happen.
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OK. Thanks for your help, I'll take a look at the Project Page and see what's suggested.
I was searching for images I had taken at "Stowe" but I finished up with far more than I wanted.As well as "Felixstowe" there is also a place called "Morwenstowe" as well as the "river thames,tower bridge" images, which all come up as a result of the search.
What I also find frustrating is that if the search is set to "Cataloged folders", the search starts as soon as you type one letter, which then stops you from entering the rest of the search term. I have to set the search to another folder, type the search term, and then change it to "Search Cataloged folders."
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Is there some kind of hierarchy you can use to differentiate the separate stowes? That way as you type it into the search field you'll be presented with the different hierarchical options allowing you to choose the specific one you want.
The "river thames, tower bridge" is something I would use a hierarchical structure for. River Thames > different locations/items of interest along the river. Or, instead of using a comma separator change it to a dash; i.e.; "river thames–tower bridge".
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I keep telling you, the comma is not mine, it it generated by the keywording software as a separator for keywords.
The keywords "river thames" and "tower bridge" are separate keywords. I don't know how I can make them any different.
If I search for "tower bridge" in Cataloged Folders, I get all the images I have of Tower Bridge and nothing else.It seems that searching for "Stowe" produces a strange and confusing result, which I think is revealing a flaw in the program.
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Sorry for the confusion, I was wondering how you were able to get in there in the first place. :)
So if I'm understanding it correctly now, the program concatenated the two keywords "river thames" and "tower bridge" with a comma and no space character separating the two words. Is that how it shows in the Metadata panel's Keywords field? If so you should be able to correct it manually by adding a space character after the comma. I would embed that change to insure the comma concatenated has not been saved with the image. It won't change the .cr2 file but it should force an update to the sidecar files and keep the concatenated version from returning.
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I just added those two keywords to one of my images. They were added correctly and they show correctly in the Keywords field. A search for stowe is returning that image just as you described. Sorry it took me so long to get here. This is definitely a bug in the program. I will report it to the engineers. You should report it to support as well.
Because this is reproducible they won't need any example files. I would give them a procedure for reproducing the problem though: 1) add keyword "river thames", 2) add keyword "tower bridge", 3) search for "stowe"
Again, my apologies for my denseness this morning. I shouldn't have gone to bed so early last night. ;)
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This will happen for all searches for any 2 consecutive keywords.
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One more data point. I'm guessing you are using the Search bar at the top of the browser window? When I search there I get the results you see. If I go to Advanced search and search only Keywords for the exact same string I do not get the concatenated keywords being returned.
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I am searching by selecting "Advanced Search" from the panel on the left hand side of the screen. I don't use the search panel at the top of the screen.
I'm glad you have managed to reproduce the problem.
It's a coincidence that I have that combination of keywords, and I am conducting that particular search.
However, searching for "stowe" finds "Felixstowe" and "Morwenstowe" as well, so it looks as if there should be a match limit on the number of letters the search result returns.0 -
The Advanced Search panel contains a Search field. That field is identical to the one at the top of the screen. The top of the screen is a shortcut to filling out the search field in the Advanced Search panel the same way double-clicking a keyword in the Keyword List is a shortcut to performing an Advanced Search for that Keyword.
If you expand the Advanced options and use its features to search just Keywords for "stowe" it will return photos with just that keyword. A Keyword search for "stowe" will not return felixstowe or morwenstowe. It will find only that exact match. I've tested it with your keywords. ;) Notice below that the photo of the Blue Angels has a "morwenstowe" keyword.
After using a Keyword search for "stowe"
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When I open the program it opens with the folder of the last images that I edited.
The check "button" next to "Advanced Search" on the lower left is not lit.
As soon as I start typing in the top "search box" it lights the button on the Advanced Search.
If I have "Search Cataloged Folders" as my search destination, the search commences as soon as I start typing IN EITHER SEARCH BOX.
So in other words it starts to search immediately anything begins to be entered into the search box, which makes the entry of a long search string impossible, unless I change the search destination to something OTHER than "Search Cataloged Folders."Typing "stowe" in EITHER search box brings up "Felixstowe" "Morwenstowe" and "river thames, tower bridge" images. I've also noticed it finds images keyworded "Padstow" without the 'e' on the end, so it appears to be finding every instance of the letters "stow" regardless of punctuation.
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As soon as I start typing in the top "search box" it lights the button on the Advanced Search. Yes, I told you those two fields are identical and the one at the top of the screen is just a convenience to accessing the one in the Advanced Search panel.
If I have "Search Cataloged Folders" as my search destination, the search commences as soon as I start typing IN EITHER SEARCH BOX. Yes, this is how the program works. It starts searching immediately regardless of whether you are searching the entire catalog or just the current folder. It's just that the full catalog searches take longer so you notice it more than when a smaller individual folder is being searched. I wrote to support about this when I first started using the program and never received any response so I have to assume it is a design feature they wish to keep.
Typing "stowe" in EITHER search box Yes, because they are the same search box as I've explained. Those fields are designed to search ALL metadata fields so you will see results for matches other than the exact keyword you are searching for. When I was playing with keywords last night to research this more, my searches would return images with matches from the Description field. Again, this is by design. Notice the setting Match All Criteria in the screenshot above.
If you want to find the images with just the keyword "stowe" you have to do a Keyword search. You can do that 2 ways. The easiest way, and one that avoids the search delay while typing, is to use the Keyword List. Enter "stowe" in its Search field and it will limit the list entries to just those keyword which contain that string. Now you can double-click the stowe entry to find exact matches for that keyword. It will return only photos with "stowe" as I've shown in the screen shots above and below.
The other way is to go the Advanced Search > Advanced and set up a Keyword search as I've illustrated above. The double-click the keyword in the Keyword List is a convenience which sets all this up for you. They are the exact same searches.
Try the double-click method and see what happens. Then take a look at how the Advanced Search parameters are set so you can see how to do it manually in the future.
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FWIW, when I'm searching for keywords I only use the double-click method. It's faster and I never make any typos. :)
The Advanced Search Pane is covered in the User Guide starting on page 33.
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I just tried searching from the "keyword" list using the "Find Cataloged Photos with Keyword" and I can report that this DOES only find my images with "stowe" as the keyword (273 images)
So it would appear there is a difference in results between the two search methods.
For me, using the "Advanced Search" (if it worked properly) is much quicker than having to scroll down hundreds of keywords in order to search for the one I'm looking for.As Rick suggested in the second post of this thread, if you had a "Go" (or "Search") button for Advanced Search, it would at least give you the opportunity to fully enter the search term in the search box, before the search started.
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No, they do not work differently. You are not setting up the Advanced Search parameters correctly when you do it manually. I don't know how though. This is why I keep asking for a screenshot showing the entire screen. Show me one that you have set up manually with the search results and one of the found images selected so I can see its Metadata field.
No, you don't have to "scroll down hundreds of keywords in order to search for the one I'm looking for." That is what the Search field at the top of the list is for and why I explicitly instructed you on how to use it. Or, do you really have "hundreds" of keywords containing the string "stowe"? In that case, yes, setting it up manually might be faster as long as you set it up correctly. If you are scrolled down the list and the Search field isn't visible you can quickly return to the top of the list by closing then reopening the Keyword List panel. I use the hotkeys Control-9 pressed twice.
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For me, scrolling down the list of keywords, finding the one I want and then double clicking it, takes MUCH longer than entering the search term would, if the Advanced Search worked properly.
I don't know how many keywords are on my list since the program does not give me this information, but I have a LOT of keywords.It seems to me that the "Advanced Search" facility needs to be looked at by the programming team, since it's not only cumbersome to use, it returns wrong image results, as evidenced by this discussion.
Thank you very much for your patience in trying to get to the bottom of my dilemma.
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Here is a screenshot of the term stowe in the Advanced Search box and a sample of one of the images that it found, which as you can see is key worded river thames, tower bridge.
I would be grateful if you could show me how the search term "stowe" is incorrect in this example?
In this instance the search has found 971 images, of which only 274 are actually "Stowe."
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I can see now what you are doing wrong when setting up the manual keyword search. You are using the generic search field which as I've explained will search all metadata fields for matches. After setting the Advanced field to search for Keywords, enter that keyword in the blank field to the right of the Keywords setting. Take another look above where I've annotated "Sets up this".
Also, you've searched the Keyword List for "st pauls" then set up a manual search for "stowe". Search the Keyword List for "stowe" then double-click its entry in the list. Use the Search field at the top of the Keywords List to limit the entries it displays like you've done for "st pauls" only search for "stowe". Look at the annotation "Double-clicking this".
I don't know how I can make this any more clear. I provided illustrated step-by-step instructions on how to do this.
1) Use the Keyword List's Search field to find "stowe". It will limit the list to display only those keywords containing that string. Find the entry for just "stowe" and double-click on it.
2) Browse the results.
That's it. It's that simple. Advanced Search does work properly when used correctly.
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Thank you very much for that
It appears to me that "search" panel in Advanced Search is pointless and it would be much simpler to enter the search term directly into the box under the "Match All Criteria" panel, which is where it appears if you double click the keyword.
The fact I am searching all metadata fields still doesn't explain how the search returns "river thames, tower bridge" as part of the results of my "stowe" search.
In future I will just have to ignore the "Advanced Search" completely and just do my searches from the keyword list.
In which case why bother to have an "Advanced Search" facility at all?0
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