Highlight banding with bright skies
Answered
Hi,
I'm seeing an issue with images from a recent shoot where strong banding occurs in the highlights. The images are shot against the setting sun, the subject underexposed. Small sample is attached, with and without recover highlight hue, no processing performed. Last one from competitor without any processing.
1) Even without processing, the issue is visible. Processing makes it worse. Different profiles have small impact, all show banding.
2) As suggested by the support, adjust highlight hue is turned off. That makes it better, still far from ok.
3) Support states it seems like a limit of the processing engine.
4) Any other engine (LR, Apple on board, Affinity) does not show those issues.
The images are RAW DNG from a Pentax K1. Does anyone has similar issues? Is it connected to the specific camera? Any idea for fixing it? It seems like recover highlight hue is bugged (confirmed by the support) and without it, theres not enough tonality left to smooth the sky...
Best
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Try changing the Camera Profile in the Tone & Color panel.Camera profiles are just LUTs applied to the image prior to any processing. I'd suggest using Linear Raw as that removes the LUT and gives you the straight raw data as ON1 has interpreted it. I use Linear Raw whenever I've got very bright skys to work with.
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Thanks for the tip, but as I said profiles only change the situation marginally. It looks like the harsh lines are baked in the image after raw conversion - so much that I expected the image to be faulty, which is why I tried different softwares. And as I said, all others perform well here..
And while its a strongly backlit image, it should not be too hard. For the edit in other Software, I just up the exp. by 0.7 and drop the HL
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If you want to do this editing in On1 and the other programs render better, as a workaround you can use one of them to convert to TIFF and use that in On1.
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Hi
I have exactly the same problem (Pentax K5ii). I do not see the problem when I open the images in an old version of Adobe Camera RAW.
Is the conclusion that it is a problem with the RAW processing engine used by On1?
Is it something that will be corrected at some time?
Is the only current solution to save the file as a TIFF in another package?
Thank you for any help.
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Did you try changing the Camera Profile to Linear Raw as suggested above?
You can also try toggling the Recover Highlight Hue option.
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Hi Brian
Thanks for your reply. Changing to Linear RAW changed the image, but didn't improve it. The Recover Highlight Hue helps a lot, but doesn't eliminate the problem. The only method I currently have, which is acceptable, is your suggestion of saving as TIFF in ACR. I am still learning ON1 and editing, does a TIFF file give me the same editing options in On1 as a RAW file?
Thanks.
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It’s difficult to give good advice without seeing what you are seeing, screenshots are helpful 😉, but here is what I do to recover highlights that were not completely blown out in the original exposure but the program wants to over expose.
I add either a Local Adjustment or a Tone Enhancer with its Blending Mode set to Multiply or Soft Light. I may combine that with a Luminosity Mask to limit its effects to just the highlights. Now go back to the Tone & Color panel to compensate for the increased darkness, saturation, and contrast.
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Thanks for the reply. I have tried your suggestions and they do not help. The issue isn't blown out highlights, it is the jagged colour bands around the sun and in the sea. I have attached two example images. The second is a RAW opened in ON1, which has no editing only zoomed to 100%. The first is a TIFF from ACR, where the problem isn't visible.
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That is coming from the combination of the Recover Highlight Hue option being on and the Camera Profile that is being used. Turning off the recovery option and selecting a different profile should allow you to get rid of it.
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As far as I know ON1 Raw processor can not manage 10bit colour deep. This capacity is very important to avoid colour band and was proposed to the development team a copule of years ago. I don’t know if it is now available on the 2021 version
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Thank you Brian. Those two suggestions help a great deal, but I am still not sure the transitions are as smooth as ACR does it. But it gives me images that I can work with.
Thank you for your comment Andrea. I understand what you are saying, but don't know how it relates to other (more modern?) cameras. Are you saying that Pentax use a 10 bit method and other manufacturers use more than 10 bits and therefore have a greater colour resolution?
I would be interested if anyone knows whether this 10bit handling is available in the 2021 version. I still use 2020, but if 2021 has the modification, I may be tempted.
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I am surprised this issue has not been fixed and the answer still being the highlight recovery and profile which did not work when I tried it month ago. Pity. Sadly this support style is what made go back to other products, just my 2 cents.
You can give it a try with 2021 there should be a tester available. However I wonder about the results and the 10bit talk since RAW usually is 14/14/14 anyway
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It is not a problem related to the camera which today in most cases generate 10bit per channel colour deep files. In order to fully utilize the information included in the raw file and display images at 10bit colour deep you need a widegamut monitor and a GPU with 10bit colour capabilities and a photo browser or editor such as ON1, lightroom or photoshop, which is capable to manage such type of monitor and GPU. The same file edited or visualized at 10bit per channel (1.7 billion colours) will be different from a 8bit per channel (16 million colours) rappresentation and same posterization effects in the sky could disappear. All the colours gradients with 1.7 billion colour capability will be smoother. This does not means that all the images will be goods, an overexposed image will remain overexposed but you have a tool which allow you an high margin of error or let’s say will provide a better result at same error, and even the possibility to correct the error during the editing will preset a better result.
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Little workaround with this problem is apply Blur filter only to those areas with banding.
Darek K
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Max - Thank you for your comments. You are correct, I have checked and my camera does have 14 bit colour depth on RAW files. I may trial On1 2021.
Andrea - Thanks for your comments. I am intending to upgrade graphics card in near future, and monitor when funds allow. I will consider these features at the time.
Dariusz - Thank you for your suggestion, which also helps with the problem.
Overall, I agree with Max and do think there is a limitation with the program, but I now have some work arounds. Thank you all.
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Thank you Nigel, the question risen was significant.
Take you time to upgrade monitor and graphics card since it seems that ON1 PR is not able to manage 10bits today
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