Edits not seen by Develop for External SSD
After my problems with lost edits over the last couple months I uncatalogued all folders. Went back one release then returned to current release.
As a canary in the coal mine I set up 4 files with edits (badges, .on1 sidecars shown) and left them alone. They were on my external ssd, google drive on my internal drive, and my daily hard drive backup of ssd. I monitored the files for the last few weeks and the edits stuck. Today I noticed on the external SSD that the badges are gone, the .On1 file is there with edit script. The edits are not read by Develop from the ssd, but remain and are readable by Develop on the internal drive and the backup drive. The on1 file text for the backup and the external SSD appear to match.
I am beyond disheartened.
Screen shots available.
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Thanks Brian,
So this database exists even tho all my folders are not catalogued? If I deleted the database things might work again as if it were a new computer? Any harm?
Just for grins I am going to install ON1 on my wife’s Mac and share my SSD and see if the .on1 connections are made.
BTW I don’t see any mention of this issue being addressed in the release notes here: https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032741611-ON1-Photo-RAW-2020-5-Release-Notes-Download.
Brian, does your work flow use ON1 totally? If so how do you manage this issue? I have gotten minimally competent with Bridge, ACR and Photoshop and more than ever appreciate ON1. Just need a workflow or fix to get past this issue reliably. But need be I could go to the dark side. I am at a decision point would appreciate your advice.
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Yes, the databases exist separately from the catalogs. Those databases store editing information while the databases created by the cataloging process focus more on keywords and metadata searching and browser preview caching (the PerfectBrowseCache stores those previews.)
My workflow uses ON1 primarily. I do not do any finishing edits in any other programs except the occasional run at Topaz which I still haven't figured out how to use properly. When I use other software it is primarily for HDR or panorama merging when ON1 struggles. Even those I prefer to do in ON1 when the merges work properly which is most of the time.
I have lost edits but my circumstances are not normal as I do testing for the company and there are times when I've had to completely remove ON1 from my system and reinstall from scratch. That makes it hard for me to know when I discover some weeks later that I've permanently lost some edits whether it was from the problems the engineers found or if I introduced them myself. Most likely it's a combination of the two. All I can do at this point is the same as all of us: wait to see if they continue to get lost in the future.
I don't know what those databases are for so I can't guarantee that removing them is completely safe. I do know that I and others have successfully deleted those files in the past without loosing any edits. If you want to test and be able to recover quickly make a backup copy of that folder before deleting the databases. Check things out looking for any lost edits. If you find any problems quit the program and restore from the backup to recover.
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So after reading through this thread I remain cofused
Am I to understand that future edits will not be lost is 2020.5?
While those edits lost prior to 2020.5 need to be relinked .
would appreciate a clear explanation
Thanks
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Am I to understand that future edits will not be lost is 2020.5? That is the hope. Only time will tell if the problem has been fixed.
While those edits lost prior to 2020.5 need to be relinked. Only if you have already lost edits. Not everyone has experienced this problem.
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I am not able to relink most of my disconnected edits. No assurance that new edits are safe.
Support today said "It's difficult to determine the root cause.
Our engineering team is investigating and requesting the following files."They did not respond to my questions:
- Should I expect for disconnected files to be reconnected in 20.5?
- Is there any sort of an initialization process I can trigger to restore the edit connections?
Also the 20.5 release notes do not mention this problem. There is no statement that going forward they do not expect any problems, so even if I re-edit no assurance I well not lose them again.
I don't think they have an understanding of this long standing but maybe not wide spread problem. The communication is perfunctory and does not build confidence.
I have dropped my Plus membership for now, and am slowly re-editing my favorites using Bridge, Photo Raw and Photoshop. On1 workflow is much superior for me, but what am I going to do? At least I am getting used to the Adobe workflow and can duplicate the results I get from ON1 without too much angst. Luminosity masks are so far a black hole compared to ON1 tho. Big learning curve for Photoshop compared to ON1, but doable if I use a subset of its tools.
I will send the requested files to support, as I have in the past, but am not holding my breath.
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Brian,
A couple shots in the dark.
1. I did a fresh install of 20.5 on wife’s identical Macbook, ON1 not previously installed. Took a thumb drive with the test images I have been monitoring, some with badges (connected edits) some with .on1 files but disconnected edits. The latter were not read. So I infer that it is something inherent in the file pair since no “database” existed? Does this lead anywhere?
2. I use Carbon Copy Cloner writing copies of my SSD to a spinning hard drive. I rotate in a second drive for backup offsite. The new drive will have an earlier outdated clone of the SSD with ON1 files. Could ON1 somehow see this drive and get confused? Esp if I at some point took a look at the spinner via Browse?
3. I have not lost any edits in the last month. Do you think this is happenstance or do you know if anything has been fixed? Are you still seeing instances of similar problems?
Still hopeful, Jerry
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1) This means that somehow the edits have been removed from the .on1 sidecar. This is why trying to reconnect them on your system did not work, they were gone from both repositories — the internal database and the sidecars. Which begs the questions, how did they get removed from the sidecars? Did that removal trigger removal from the database leading to the permanent loss of the edits or the other way around?
2) I have that exact same setup. If that drive is connected while ON1 is running, then yes, it will be seen. I would hope that viewing an older edit on drive A would not have any effect on the same image with newer edits on drive B. If that is happening it speaks to a serious problem with the database manager and I would think in this case the problem would be showing up all over the place and be easier to find. However, anything is possible. It is something I would pass along to support.
3) I don't have any specifics on what has been fixed except what I've verified by testing the bugs I've already reported to see if they are still there or not. Unfortunately, I haven't been keeping a list of what has or has not. I have not seen any losses since installing .5 and that makes me hopeful that at least some of the problems have been fixed.
Do you use the Embed Metadata command? I have a theory bouncing around inside my head that may be related somehow but I haven't got it fully fleshed out yet. I was updating old contact information in my metadata as I went through fixing the keyword problems I've described elsewhere. (Those seem to have been fixed now. Yay!). I would select all the images in a folder and make my changes then embed them. Some of the time, the super-selected image would be one that had not had any photographic edits. My thought is, and I passed this to support and Stevie said he gave it to the engineers, could the part of the .on1 file that holds the edit info and which is empty in this case get copied along with the metadata to all the other files causing the already edited images to loose their edits. I'm still working on setting up a plan for testing this theory.
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Brian, Embed Meta Data in the Photo dropdown is not checked. Thanks again for your careful responses. Passed my info on to Stevie. Jerry
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You will not see it checked any more than you would see a checkmark next to a Save command. It's just another command that you choose to use or not. I'm going to say you haven't used it. ;) Thanks for letting me know.
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Now that 2020.5.1 has bee released do we know if the issue with losing externally stored edits has been resolved.
I have been waiting to download the new version for some confirmation that this is no longer an issue???
Thanks for any feedback!
Art
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Unfortunately, the only way we will know whether or not it has been fixed is to wait for someone to report more losses. So far that hasn't happened.
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At lease two instances of such have been anecdotally reported by Sean Bruce and Raymond Griffiths in this long recent posting 360071263071-Whats-Next-for-PR-
Also no mention of this problem in the release notes for 20.5.1
While I am not actively using ON1 because of this problem I have kept a test folder and play with it now and then and have had no recurrence in the last two releases. OTH 20.5 is not able to bring the disconnected edits with .on1 sidecars back to life even tho the sidecars have what I believe are a full record of the edits.
Since support can't reproduce the problem reportedly all we have is hope. I do sense this is a problem that affects few users, but when it does it is a bummer.
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