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Very slow performance



  • David Price

    Hi Brian

    My lap top is much less powerful than yours.  [Which could just possibly be why it can't handle catalogues.  (Don't worry, I'll try again after the SSD has been fitted)].  But, you have almost exactly described my PR editing experience.  I'd agree that the more edits on a raw file, the more PR has to do, so the longer it takes.   However, when things do occasionally bog down, I very often find that just returning to Browse and waiting for the ON1 file to be saved, is enough to reset things. 

    I think that versions are great.  When I am cloning out things, I sometimes go back to Browse to save. Then create a version, just in case I make a mistake on the next stage of cloning. If I do, then I delete the badly cloned version and go back to the previous version.

    Best wishes David Price

  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Just my 2 cents about catalogs. When catalogs are NOT building, On1 and all other programs on my PC hum along nicely. When I start seeing delays in any program I check On1 catalogs and sure enough, they are updating every single time. As I have mentioned many times, my PC is more than 10 years old, any modern notebook should at a minimum be equal if not faster.

    As for masks and layers and such, there continues to be problems with masks and exports being corrupted even though On1 (presumably) has been working on that problem for at least 2 years. Lately I have tried not to do a lot of masking or cloning when I have 2 or more layers. Instead, if I need 2 or more layers, I've been doing that work ONLY and once the layers look good, I go back to Browse and create a TIFF to continue working with. I even have an Export Preset to create the TIFF and leave it in the same folder. With the TIFF, I can do my masking and cloning usually without any corruption at all.

    I have a performance monitor that's always visible on my screen. I constantly monitor On1 and I often see the CPU being pinned and high memory usage. In this case, On1 is using 1.3 gig (of 8 gig) and it's only been opened for less than a minute and sitting in Browse. haven't even opened a photo yet.





  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I see pretty much the same thing on my Mac.

  • Henry Slofstra

    I'm going to document what I found today, while it's fresh in my mind.  Not out of the woods yet, but I think I'm getting there.

    First, I turned on my computer today and immediately went into PR and everything was taking forever - 20-30 minutes.  I felt something was wrong with Windows.  Drive utilization (C:) was 100% for the entire time.  Everything else OK.

    Before I go further, I have.

    i7-4790, 24 GB memory

    A 2 TB Seagate hybrid SSD Drive on C:

    A 6 TB WD Black 7200 RPM on F: with all my photos.

    Graphics - Intel HD Graphics 4600  (please don't mock me).

    Windows 10 Pro release 2004 - recently updated.

    Instead of going directly into ON1 I rebooted the computer with the idea of waiting until the hard drive was quiet.

    I observed that the Microsoft Compatibility Telemetry process was doing most of the disk I/O - for minutes.

    You don't need this, and Microsoft has a web page on disabling this entirely - Done.

    I observed also the Antimalware process, which is the full Windows antivirus was very busy.  I'll let that run.

    Anyway, did a reboot.  Still taking a long time as all the various processes load on the computer.  This time the disk hog is taskhostw.exe.  It shouldn't be doing this, but it was running from windows\system32 - not likely infected by a miner as some web pages indicate it could be. 

    There seems to be a lot of clean up going on from Microsoft processes.  One process after another going to the top of the disk usage queue.  (Click on the disk column to rank from top to bottom. Make sure you're not looking at bottom to top).  For example, 'Microsoft Pay' came up and did its bit.  An aside - I hate the way Microsoft pushes crap at you that you don't want or need. 

    My conclusion at this point is that the release 2004 is doing some post clean up and I can live with this.

    Finally, the disk (C:) goes quiet and I wait for a minute or so.

    Time to start ON1 Photodraw.  (A little more background ... when you have a mess of stuff on startup and then try and start a disk intensive process, the computer isn't able to keep up.  The disk head is doing a little bit of this and a bit of that, and mostly running back and forth like Lucy Ricardo in the chocolate factory.)

    I keep Disk cataloguing OFF.  I want to break down what PhotoDraw is doing.

    I move to my test folder of 9 x 8 megabyte CR2 files.

    It takes 30 seconds to move from the first picture to the second one.  Everything is sluggish.

    Then everything snaps into place, and I can move rapidly from pic to pic - half a second.

    My edit stacks have a few pictures set to Auto AI, the rest are manual.  I try selecting and setting all to manual.  I also set all of them to Auto AI.  Again just 9 photos.  With these operations a progress bar comes up and they take a bit of time to complete.

    One odd thing is that if I change from edit to browse, there is a 10 second delay.  I generally have the entire tray selected (control-A) when I do this.

    I turn on clipping view and move from slide to slide.  A bit of delay at first but then this is also snappy.

    Observations - Each of these operations induces a processing delay, but once completed, the preview is snappy.

    Conclusion: Problem 1 is ON1 PR tangling with Windows startup.  It's important to have a quiet disk before starting PR.  Problem 2 based on working in PR is that the problem is likely the graphics card. It's misleading because no drawing is happening during the many delays.  But I think PR is targeting the graphics with bitmaps instead of OpenGL vectors.  While this is a guess, it's worth trying a new graphics card next to see what happens.

    Back later.

  • Henry Slofstra

    The point of the previous post and procedure was to isolate the factors which could be causing a problem in order to adopt the correct remedy.   That's why I waited for the Disk to be completely quiet, i.e. at 0% before loading ON1 Photo Raw, so that Windows wouldn't be interfering with ON1 PR.  And that's also why I kept the catalogue off. Not because I don't want to use it, but because I want to focus on edit stack processing, which cataloguing doesn't help.

    I have now purchased a Radeon RX580 graphics card as my guess is that will solve the processing delays.  Bad news - installing the card requires a 6 pin to 8 pin power supply adapter.  Given the number of purchasers requiring such an adapter you'd think they'd throw it in with the card. Now it will be next week before I know if the graphics card solves the problem with ON1 PR.

  • Robert Johnson

    Henry did this work? I finally went ahead and got an SSD for my scratch and cache. And I did get a minimal boost. Loading images went fully now takes between 3-4 seconds instead on 4-5 seconds. Which is still very slow. Trying to process a wedding with On1 is awful. Especially when you try and export. Since the time I created this post I have purchased Capture 1. Tbh I like the tools much better in On1 but it just makes my workflow too darn slow. I mean I spent extra money unnecessarily just to try and keep using On1. Capture 1 is lightning quick. Is 2021 going to perform better?

  • Nitin Chandra

    I guess we are all waiting to see 2021. C1 is quite stable and works as expected for sessions and small catalogs, unfortunately, as a wildlife photographer, it is practically useless for me since I have a large catalog that I need to search across. LR might not be a speed demon, but, it works for almost all and is stable. ON1, with its tools seems to be the only real alternate (don't consider Exposure in this league).

    Performance is a minor issue for me. It is the other bugs that make is practically useless for now. I use Macs and got a new iMac a few days ago and I still landed up with the same crashes and issues. I have a MacBook pro as well...Both systems are 6 core, 16 GB with 4 GB graphic cards and SSDs. Don't think you can get a whole lot better as far as system configurations go. I am using just around 30k images for now, since 100k images seem a bit too much for ON1 to start with on the previews.

    Yes, Henry is correct in assuming the bitmap transfers and you can see those images in the scratch. I cannot even recall when I saw that happen last. Modules are using physical file images instead of memory. The state of the image is unknown to the application which is easily verified if you cancel an edit and you get a prompt for the same. Reset settings will reload the entire image again, 50k images will create 300k images in the cache, some preference settings are not saved, incorrect rendering in the red channel, noise reduction is terrible and so on...Too many fundamental issues.

    Like Luminar, ON1 is best used as a plugin for now IMO.

  • Henry Slofstra

    Hi Robert,

    This discussion jumped to another thread, but I did find out ... in my case .. a very serious issue.

    Continued ...

  • Henry Slofstra

    Here is what the Ethernet card activity looks like when I'm in ON1.  It turns out that this really slows down the ON1 software.

    I am told that this is the software (and I'm not on the cloud thing), checking to find an ON1 cloud server.  Note the larger spikes on the far right.  They happened when I began arrow-ing through a set of photos.  Even simple arrow-ing through photos causes ON1 to hang intermittently and delay for multiple seconds.  It's worse if you have applied 'Auto exposure', 'crops' or other edits to the photos.   More to come ...

  • Henry Slofstra

    The solution is to disable your network card while in ON1.  This is where you do that.

    Go to - Settings (the cog), then 'Network and Internet', then 'Change adapter options'.  Right-click on the connection for your ethernet card and disable it, but before you do, READ MY CAVEAT.

    CAVEAT - Disabling your ethernet card, kills browsing, email, and any NAS or server connection.  DON'T DO THIS if you can't live without those things while photo editing.

    But if you can do this, go back into ON1 and see what happens to your speed.

    Keep in mind, since last we spoke, I have also added a RAM disk for the cache and an AMD Radeon graphics card.

  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Henry, On1 is aware of the internet activity issue for non 360 users and should have a bug fix in the next release.

  • Henry Slofstra

    Thanks Rick,

    To clarify, fixed in a 2020.5 release?  If so, that's fantastic.  I don't presently plan to upgrade to 2021, and I prefer to upgrade my software every 2-3 years as a rule.  This isn't an expenditure issue .. happy to buy stuff like ON1 Plus, for example.

  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    I don't know. On1 hasn't said anything about a final 2020 release.

  • Henry Slofstra

    I wonder if they're familiar with the stable release/ current release concept.  I personally prefer the leading edge over the bleeding edge.


  • Michael Morlan

    Hey, thanks to everyone who has offered solutions to this problem. Since I began using the NoNoise included in the 2022 version of PR, it takes at least a full minute to open a single image. The Browse grid opens quickly, but to find the full version with all edits made, I have to zoom in and wait for at least 60 seconds. If I pass on that option and open the image in Edit, it takes just as long for the image to load. So to simply view 20 images, I have 20 minutes or more to think about where I spend my money.

    I'm using Windows 10 and I have upgraded all the hardware, and adjusted all the software that has been recommended with the exception of moving the Scratch, which involves purchasing more hardware. I mostly understand the tech issues. The reality is that PR, Skylum, and Adobe all have to work within 2 operating systems (for the majority of users), and they have all failed to provide the service they claim to offer. I can fix my problems of 56k dialup speeds to load an image by simply turning off NN? So I can't really use what I paid for? I spend as much time getting Photo Raw to work as I do editing images. So it's still old on an image, go make a ham sandwich and sit back down. Maybe the next update will offer something other than "check your driver update on the graphics card". It's getting tiresome.

  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Read my comments at the bottom of the previous page about the processing pipeline and how the order of operations affects things.

    NoNoise AI works at the very beginning of the pipeline, even before the RAW data has been demosaiced and assembled into an image. Because Photo RAW is a non-destructive editor, that AI has to reprocess and reapply the noise reduction every time you open the file. It takes time.

    Going back to the 56K modem reference, didn't you buy faster connection devices as they became more available to improve your system's performance and your ability to get more work done in less time? Spending less than $100 for an additional SSD is worth the cost for the performance boost I received.

  • Michael Morlan

    Thanks for the reply, Brian. Today, I added a SanDisk Extreme Portable SSD. The 1 TB was a pretty good deal. I moved the Scratch and the PBC. I have seen no difference at all in the speed of loading a single image, or in moving to the Edit mode. I have tried as many variations of images that I could come up with. The only variable that makes a difference is No Noise. When I remove the NN, the image appears as quickly as i could expect.

    I added the SSD to a 2019 HP Pavilion 460 Premium Desktop, I7 7700T 2.9-3.3 processor, 1 TB SATA PCIe/RST HD, 16 GB RAM, with GeForce GT 730 4 GB/DDR3 graphics card. I followed the instructions given by ZenDesk to apply the correct settings in the NVIDEA settings. So that's what we're working with.

    I'm more than satisfied with the speed in which Albums and other image groups load on the thumbnail page. I really see little difference in accuracy whether it is in "fast" mode or "accurate". My problem is that it is taking more than 1 minute to load the image to match the likeness it had when I left Edit mode. Also, it makes no sense that I have to zoom in so that the image will show all of the edits that were saved. When I double click on an image in the browse grid it does not show the cumulative edited version. It seems that the Sky replacement adjustments an NN only show when it fully loads, which it will not do unless I click on the image to zoom in, wait 1-1 1/2 minutes for the progress bar to disappear. Then I can see how I last left the image. Moving the image from the browse grid to Edit mode takes the same amount of time. Unless I remove NN. You say it is the first in the pipeline, but it it the last to appear. Is it supposed to take that much time?

    I've spent 90% of my day working on this. All along, since downloading PR, I feel that I'm doing something wrong. I just want to know what it is. If it's the hardware, what's left to change? I think I'm overlooking the obvious. When I downloaded PR2022, the default file name was 2021 I think. I changed it to end in 2022 so I would know the difference. Does that matter? What other simple things could I have messed up?

    Thanks for your help!


  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    When I remove the NN… Once again, the AI engine has to re-evaluate the image and reapply the NoNoise settings each time the image is loaded for editing or for displaying in Photo View. It takes time.

    When I double click on an image in the browse grid it does not show the cumulative edited version. It should and I have a hard time believing it is not. That is basic to how the program works. If you want to double-check edit an image with some outrageous settings so it will be quite visible when those edits are being viewed. Check the photo again in Photo View (full screen view).

    When I double click on an image in the browse grid it does not show the cumulative edited version. Yes, that is correct.

    Moving the image from the browse grid to Edit mode takes the same amount of time. Yes, it has to be re-rendered in each instance.

    Is it supposed to take that much time? Yes. How much time will depend upon your system and GPU.

    You are not doing anything wrong. This is just how the program works.

    When I downloaded PR2022, the default file name was 2021… Again, I have a hard time believing this unless you are talking about the ON1 NoNoise AI 2021 which was the first version for that program. I would not change the name. It should match what you see in the About this program dialog.

    The place where you will see the performance boost from the new SSD with the program's Scratch space is when you are doing your editing, particularly while brushing masks.

  • Michael Morlan

    Hi Brian,

    Thanks again for your quick response! I think I get it now. I can see how the re-rendering process is applied. The more labor-intensive edits such as NN and Sky replacement just take longer to apply than the basic Toning and Effects do. It takes about the same amount of time to re-render as it does to originally render I certainly want non-destructive editing and this is part of the process. Having little experience with these new processes, my misunderstanding was more ignorance of the obvious than overlooking the obvious. 

    I can easily adjust my work flow by being more judicious when applying NN. I would estimate that 95% of my images are taken outdoors in bright light and noise is rarely a problem. I realize that it isn't necessary most of the time, the noise reduction available in the Toning or Effects will normally be all I need, as it works very well also. It is good to know that I have NN for the images that need it. 

    I have found Photo Raw to be an excellent program for my editing purposes and I enjoy using it. I've found it easy to experiment with the creative aspects, something that seemed too cumbersome in other programs. I still have a lot of PR to explore and learn, and I'm sure I will have more questions. I've been wanting to end my subscription to LR/PS for a year now. I'm feeling more confident in doing so. The help that you (and others) have given me in these forums has a lot to do with that.

    Thanks for the education! 



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