Shutting down takes >30 min
Hi Folks, my present catalogue is all of this year's photos - around 270 GB. Shutting down ON1 presently takes >30 min (!) on a relatively high end laptop (i7 9750, 32 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 2070).
Any solutions for speeding this up/increasing performance?
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Hi
That is very strange!
My catalogue is also all of this years photos and it's 295GB and it takes like not even 5 sec to close!
I recon you need to look at what else is open and might take computer power from ON1
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Hi Mike,
- How is your system configured? Where are your photos stored? Are they on the boot drive or a separate drive?
- Have you added an SSD for the program's Scratch space and PerfectBrowseCache?
- How much free space is left on the boot drive and photos drive?
- What happens if you quit all other programs that are running while ON1 is shutting down?
My Pictures folder is 280.3 GB and my system shuts down in just a few seconds. Is your ND Service folder still getting huge? Mine is only 4.6 GB.
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ON1 is on my SSD drive (168/460 GB free), photos are on a conventional hard drive (764 / 1800 GB free). Browser cache is on the ssd (I think). In the meantime I've shrunk my catalogued file to just the folders I'm working on, which has reduced the size of my ND Service folder and accelerated shutdown, but it's still slow. Chrome usually running in the background.
Thanks for your time.
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You might want to consider adding a high performance SSD to be used just for ON1's Scratch space and the PerfectBrowseCache. Doing that adds a dedicated I/O channel to those to pieces of the program's workspace which improves the program's performance noticeably. There are buttons in the program's Preferences > System settings tab to move those pieces. You'll want that drive to have its own direct connection to the system. Don't connect it through a hub with other drives or daisy chain it to another drive so it doesn't have to share that I/O channel with any other drives.
Your ND space usage still seems high. I have my entire Pictures folder in a single catalog and have also cataloged two of its subfolders just for easier access to those locations and my usage is still pretty small. You might want to talk with support about that.
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Shutting down has been a problem ever since I started using ON 1 in 2019. I am running the latest 2023 version on Windows 10 and have an SSD for my C: drive. I have thousands of pictures in numerous folders and subfolders. Today I decided to see what triggers the delayed or failed shut down. When exiting ON 1 the program will lock up and the CPU runs at about 50%. I lose patience after a few minutes and force ON 1 to stop. I have never waited long enough to see if it ever ends. I found if I open and work on a handful of pictures in a few folders, ON 1 will shut down right away. When I continue to open folders one after another I will get to a point where the thumbnails just stop displaying. At this point I can force the thumbnails to display by switching from grid view to single or multi photo view with the file strip at the bottom. Refresh Photo does nothing in grid view. It is not necessary to ever enter edit. I hope I gave enough information for someone to troubleshoot.
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Try the DELETE settings option in this article. Don't know if it will help, but it's easy to try.
https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360049641431-Delete-Settings-File
In the HELP menu, there is an option to show the LOG file. Look in there and see if there are any errors. DON'T post your log here, we don't know how to read it, but if you have anything interesting there, open a trouble ticket with ON1 tech support and let them take a look at it.
https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
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When I continue to open folders one after another I will get to a point where the thumbnails just stop displaying.
Are you using Catalogs? If not you are probably filling the program's preview cache used for folders which have not been cataloged. Once the cache fills and you move to a new folder the program has to remove older previews from the cache to make room for new previews which then have to be rendered before the thumbnail previews can be displayed. The size of this cache is controlled by the Cache Size slider in Preferences > System as shown above.
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Thank you Rick and Brian for your suggestions. The delete option that Rick suggested is too drastic, so I decided not to attempt it. Brian's comments seem to fit the symptoms. As a result, I will try clearing the cache the next time the thumbnail display becomes a problem and see how that works. If that resolves the issue, then I must conclude that there is a glitch in the software that can be corrected. It seems to me that a full cache should have a minimal effect if any at all on shutting down.
Regarding catalogue folders: although I do have some, many are not catalogued.
Thanks again.
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A Reset is drastic, but Delete settings is simple and can be done any time. It's the first thing to try when you have weird problems.
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Based on this discussion it makes me wonder if the cache is being cleared of previous thumbnails when I move to another folder. If not that could be the cause of my problem. I suppose most users do not jump from folder to folder as I do, so they would not have this issue.
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No, the cache does not get cleared when you move to a different folder and it shouldn't be. If you move back to the 1st folder relatively quickly, all its contents would have to be rendered again slowing down the browser and defeating the purpose of having a cache in the first place.
As I described above, the cache is cleared of the oldest previews when it gets filled and more room is needed for new previews. Or when you click the Clear Cache button in Preferences > System.
I recommend reading through the Knowledge Base article Catalogs and Caches - ON1 Photo RAW 2022 & ON1 PHOTO RAW 2021. It explains the differences between the PerfectBrowseCache and the other one and how each is used.
It might take a couple of readings to fully grasp everything, it did for me.
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My previous comment was not clear. I appreciate that the cache should not be entirely cleared but as you say it should be cleared of previous previews when the cache fills to make room for new thumbnails. This does not seem to be happening, otherwise I would not expect a problem, other than a slight delay, when opening a new folder. This does not seem to be happening in grid view. And why should a full cache affect shut down? That makes no sense to me at all.
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It does not but that is where the conversation went.
Previous versions of Photo RAW had a big problem with this as I'm sure you're aware. This thread was started 2 years ago after all. There were some fixes for it in 2023 but perhaps not enough.
Also, while the cache may not be the problem, database corruption certainly could if it caused the database manager to become hung during the shutdown process. This is why it is recommended to try the Delete Settings and Reset Photo RAW functions. They will give the program a blank slate to rebuild. If the problem was corruption one of those should fix it. If not then it is time to go to Tech Support letting them know you've already taken those two steps as their first response is going to be to try them.
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Thank you Brian. I really didn't want to go this route, but I may have no choice if I want to clear this up. When I have the time I will give it a try. I'll let you know how it goes.
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I finished my recent project and decided to tackle the shutdown issue and go the "drastic" route. When I did try it was not as drastic as I expected. That severe option may have been eliminated. When I selected "Reset ON1 Photo RAW 2023" the next popup says Resetting will remove your local databases and trigger a migration to the previous version of the application..... That did not help. My previous settings and databases seemed to remain intact. I would not expect it would help because the same problem existed for quite a few versions. It seems that what I need is a complete reset back to ground zero - just like ON1 is new to me. Now what?
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When I selected "Reset ON1 Photo RAW 2023"… The migration that was triggered was FROM you old version to 2023. This is why your previous settings and databases were intact.
The Reset option is a complete reset. It returns your program to the same state as when that version of the program was first installed.
The hang on shutdown isn't that big a problem. Yes, it is a PITA but all you have to do is force quit the program and you're back in business. Every time this has happened to me it seems that the hang comes after all the shutdown operations except for actually stopping the program from running. I've never lost any edits or had any problems with the program from force quitting at that point.
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I'm getting frustrated. Regardless of what I do nothing much is reset. I thought maybe I had to do both delete settings and reset Photo Raw. I tried Delete then Reset, and then Delete again, after which little changed, I STILL HAVE my catalogues and albums and favorites and worst of all the problem of shutting down remains. Ugh! I suspect the current ON1 2023 version may have altered those actions, either intentionally or by mistake, and they no longer work the same.
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As long as you have older versions of your user data installed the Reset function will migrate from it to recreate your Catalogs and Albums, etc. Reset includes deleting the settings so using the Delete Settings command after a Reset is just a waste of time. It doesn't hurt anything though.
As for changes in 2023 affecting this, yes there were changes. It happens much less frequently for most users now. Your situation is an exception.
You can always remove your Catalogs and Albums and Keywords, etc yourself from within the program then recreate them.
Another option would be to delete all your old user data then Reset once again only now there will be nothing to migrate from so you'll see that everything has been cleared out. Your user data is stored at C:\Users\<user>\App Data\Roaming\ON1. Delete it, or move it to an out of the way location for safe keeping then run the Reset function again.
Edit: I reread your post where you talk about CPU running at 50%.
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Thank you Brian. I moved my ON1 data to another folder as you advised and started over. As expected, I am starting over, but that's OK if it fixes my problem. Time will tell. I'll try to remember to check back in a few weeks and let you know how it goes.
Sincerely, Bill
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Well that didn't take long at all. Optimisticly I started ON1 with a fresh start and proceeded to jump from folder to folder to see how things look. It looked great, it was quick and seemed fine. Unfortunately, after maybe a dozen folders, ON1 stopped displaying some thumbnails. Not a good sign. I then shut down ON1 and it locked up. I had to kill the program. Also, despite having sidecars the edits on a photo I looked at were lost. Now for me that's not a big deal right now but it is not what I expected. I did not create any catalogs. I prefer not to use them if I don't have to. By the way I am running the latest 2023 version: 17.0.2.13102.
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I'm going back to the beginning, well not all the way back to the Big Bang, but pretty close. I uninstalled ON1 2023 and 2022 and removed the ON1 folder under userid/App Data/roaming. then I rebooted the computer and stared over by installing just 2023. Let's see how that goes. I'll keep you posted.
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I'm afraid I don't have good news. I must say I was excited to see that everything was looking great for a while. I ran ON1 a few times over a period of days and each time I was able to search around and exit without any problems, but then today it all fell apart. I was searching my folders for a specific individual. I used the advanced search to locate folders in which he might be found. It took a little digging to make the advanced search do what I needed, but that's OK, it is a learning experience. Then it happened. Everything was good for a while examining a few folders then in the next folder I opened some of the photos were blank. A bad sign. A bad sign indeed. As before, changing the view to film strip view the blank photos were displayed. So I shut down and there it hung up. The CPU was running in the 30 to 50 percent range. I went back in a little later and it did it again very soon after starting: blank pictures, etc. It didn't take very long to break again this time. I think I put in enough detail in this description that the software guys should have no questions.
Sadly, Bill
P.S. On a personal note, I like ON1 a lot and want to see it succeed, especially with all the worthy competition in the field to contend with. As a retired programmer, I know how dumb stuff like this can mean the difference between success and the alternative. Ugh!
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To me, it sounds like the program is trying to do something in the background and you're not letting it finish but only tech support would know what it's doing.
You should have had a reply back from tech support a long time ago. What do they say about it?
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