Is AI Auto really AI?
Every time I press AI Auto to let ON1 adjust the tone of a photo it sets Saturation to -5 and Vibrance to +15. This is every time - every photo from two different Nikon cameras. This doesn't seem entirely AI to me. Am I missing something in the definition of AI? Does this happen for anyone else?
Regards,
Simon.
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Yes, that is the settings I get when I use Auto AI also.
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Yes, same with me. And I don't like it because photos become too oversaturated to my taste.
So I am more switching to manual tone settings, or resetting Saturation and Vibrance after AI Auto.
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No vamos a tener ningun comentario oficial al respecto??
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The company rarely makes comments here.
Google translation:
La compañía rara vez hace comentarios aquí.
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Just because those two sliders always get set to the same values it does not mean AI is not being used. All the other sliders are set according to the image being worked on so there must be some kind of intelligence to analyze the image. Apparently when the AI was trained it found that those two settings worked best there or were the most common settings used in the images that were used to train the AI.
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Gracias Brian por tu contestacion
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As I noted above, in the case of the Saturation & Vibrance sliders, yes, they do always give a fixed result. I also explained why that could be in my notes above. (I took a class last fall in Machine Learning. How to train an AI to do exactly this kind of thing was what the class was all about.) I'm willing to be that all the other sliders in the Tone & Color panel were set according to the individual image and did not show a fixed set of settings. That requires some kind of AI analysis and not just a lookup for "AI" settings.
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Also, it will not learn from your prior edits. That is the training part of the process of creating an AI and it takes a lot of processor time to do the training. Most of our homework assignments were due the 2nd class period from when they were assigned. We were given 2 weeks for the neural network AI assignments because it would take 2 or 3 days of 24 hour processing just to do the training before we could even test the AI we were creating to see if it was working.
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Thank you all for your replies. One comment I didn't make in my original post was that I had interpreted a paragraph in the ON1 manual to mean that Saturation is included in the AI Auto feature: NOTE: The AI Match and AI Auto buttons only affect the tone and saturation of your image; they don’t adjust the white balance. If you wish to change the white balance, use the Auto button in the Color section of the panel, or adjust the Temperature and Tint sliders as desired, as described below.
On reflection this might mean that the saturation is affected by the output of the AI feature but not by direct action of the Saturation slider.
Nonetheless, even if I take the latter interpretation, the Saturation and Vibrance sliders are being moved by pressing the AI Auto button and the output is not as we would expect AI to be, even if we grant the software the benefit of doubt by believing it is using an AI algorithm to output Saturation and Vibrance values.
Thanks also for confirming another query I had, which was to know whether the company responds to this forum.
I will ask them from their comment on my original question and post back their reply.
Regards.
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Everything a program does is determined by an algorithm. They are just sets of instructions for performing some procedure and you don't need a computer to have an algorithm. A written set of instructions for driving somewhere is an algorithm for when and where to turn the vehicle. You're the processor in this case.
An AI is an algorithm that is adaptive to the input it receives. That can be something written entirely by a human like the programs I wrote for my AI class to play Chinese Checkers and drive a rover around an unknown terrain to achieve increasingly difficult tasks. The program has to look at the current situation and decide what to do based on the conditions it detects at that time and the task to be accomplished.
An AI can also be created through machine learning. With this process data sets are used to "train" the AI. Large sets of data are analyzed in repetitively with each analysis graded and a correction factor is created and fed back into the initial analysis algorithm then the data set is analyzed again. This gets repeated thousands upon thousands of times upon thousands of pieces of data until the creator of the AI is satisfied it is working well. That AI algorithm can then be used to analyze new data and make predictions on what to do with it. This is how programs like Deep Blue are created and how facial recognition is done. These are Neural Networks.
There are different kinds of AI algorithms engineers can use to do the training depending upon the type of data being worked with and the kinds of analysis that are needed. Neural Networks are not always needed.
That's all simplified of course.
As a software engineer and all around geek I found the course a lot of fun and quite interesting.
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I see all the settings set by the Auto AI as starting points the same as using a Preset, it's just a different kind of "preset". You can reset any slider to its default setting by double-clicking on the slider's label so it's easy to reset those 2 sliders if that is a better starting point.
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I feel the same about the AI mask; it is really just a buzzword. In the old days with Perfect Mask, it worked almost the same way; you picked colours to keep and colours to drop. The “AI” just refines this a bit.
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Perhaps not surprisingly, their reply to my enquiry was similar: "We have checked with our VP of Product and this is 'as designed'..."
This is a weak response and not a justification for the behaviour of a product. The Tacoma Narrows bridge behaved as designed and promptly fell apart. One half of me wants to ask for a more detailed response and the other half is telling me not to waste my time.
I certainly don't expect any algorithm to successfully automatically process any photo - that would be extraordinary - so it is understood that it is a starting position from which to finish the job oneself. However, it irks me that it is not even attempting photo-specific settings for Saturation and Vibrance whilst claiming to do exactly that.
An interesting discussion, but other than chatting with likeminded people, I suspect the outcome will be fruitless....
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Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8P_ppJl1Vs
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That's a pretty interesting video. Watched it a few days ago and learned a bit of good info.
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What is the equivalent of the HSL adjustment in Lightroom, in PR? Is it the colour adjustment effect?
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Yes, that is the equivalent. The Color Enhancement filter also has those controls along with Temperature, Tint, Saturation, & Vibrance controls.
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I rarely use the settings generated by AI Auto, but regard them as a starting point for my adjustments.
As soon as you change the AI settings, the Mode reverts to "Manual" anyway.
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