Healing Brush - Clone Stamp Identical
Just checking with others experience. On my iMac On1 PhotoRaw 2021 (just updated) it appears that the Healing Brush and Clone Stamp are identical in operation.
Am I correct? Is this by design? I don't see the point of having identical processes.
I thought that on most other programs that Cloning works by setting a source location and then brushing to clone over a problem area to be edited.
This is looking like a bug to me. Report it to support.0
I've reported it too.0
I just reported the 'apparent bug' of the Healing Brush and Clone Stamp being identical to support as well.0
I noticed the same thing. I also reported it. Clone stamp tool acts exactly like the Healing brush. Holding option does nothing and when clicking on a spot it selects a replacement automatically just like the Healing Brush.0
Reporting it as well to add rank to it. This is really frustrating - the Clone Stamp allowed some very fine retouching by "spraying" the replacement structure and textures dosed as needed, especially on tricky spots.0
Y'all need to watch the training videos. Option-clicking to define the source location is no longer needed. The two brushes look very similar but are not identical. The Healing Brush blends with the background more while the Clone Stamp is an exact pixel replacement without any blending.
I'm sorry I forgot to update this thread with the video links. Check out Scott Davenport's tutorial at https://youtu.be/Uu7LXYA3jC41
My reply from On1 support confirms what has been said in other threads. The clone and healing brushes LOOK and work the same way, the difference is that the Healing brush will blend the results while the clone is an exact copy. (To me it looks the same)
The Instructions for the clone too in the user guide are wrong.
This video gives a better idea...
This wouldn't have been nearly such a big deal if the user guide was written properly.3
the problem is in the way of selecting. Now, with something like the AI I have no fine control over where it takes the source from (yes, I know I can move the sorce dot, but just the whole selection that is equal to the target designated before the replacement operation started) and cannot "spray" new texture over the retouched one by more semitransparent strokes etc. In 2020, I selected the source area and had the option of fine retouching from different places and with different opacity and feather. Plus another worse feature: when I try to add another retouching, it tries to hit the area that has been already retouched! Regardless of that I hit DONE, it still tries to catch the older one.
I can record a video showing exactly the huge difference.0
Proposal to ON1 dev team , if anybody reads the forums: return the old Clone Stamp tool from 2020 and add a selection "HEAL" / "CLONE" to the newly added Healing Brush.2
Please don't misunderstand what I'm trying to convey here. I'm not saying the new Clone Stamp is better (or worse 😉) than the old way. I like Jaroslav's idea of having the option to choose between the two methods.
What I am saying is that the Healing Brush & the Clone Stamp tools are not identical, there are distinct differences but you may not always see them which would make them appear to be identical.
This is an admittedly ridiculous and unrealistic example but it does illustrate the differences nicely. On the left is the Healing Brush, which is still selected, and on the right is the Clone Stamp. Both are sourced from the same location. You can see the Clone Stamp has retained the sharpness and color of the source while the Healing Brush has attempted to blend source with the destination resulting in a softer replacement with some color shifting (blending). Of course, the HB wasn't intended for that type of work. It is designed to remove spots from smooth color areas like lens dust or sensor spots from the sky.0
That's a perfect example. And I am pretty convinced it saves a lot of trouble to many. However, there are still situations where the manual retouch is better than any AI. Let's enjoy as long as we are better than machines :-) otherwise Mr Schwarzenegger would have to heal the world again... therefore, I would vote for retaining the old Clone Stamp tool from 2020.1
Just trialling 2021 and the first thing I noticed was the change to the clone brush. It's not easy to use, that's for sure, and I would like to see it restored. It's a tool that has evolved over many years and is pretty near perfect, so why change it?2
After spending some time trying to understand the new clone tool, I'm still not happy.
I don't get how this is supposed to replace the old tool. If I want to copy a tree from one place to another, with the new tool I have to define the destination FIRST, but I don't know how the tree will fit there yet. What I need is to select the tree first so that I can brush it in.
Has anyone else played with this and found a solution? If not, then for me there is no more clone tool in On1.
The only option now is to go to layers for something that used to take a few seconds to do.0
I've got the same problems with it. It's fine for small corrections but beyond that it's backwards defining the destination first. I really like Jaroslav's idea of having both the way they kept the old Spot Healing brush while adding the newer functionality. Both ways have their uses IMO.2
Can we start a mail-in campaign to have it fixed by the next update?
Edit: I sent mine in already.4
I think I just had an epiphany. Since you can move BOTH the source and destination, you can draw over the source first, then move the selector to the destination, Finally move the other selector over the source.
In this case:
- select the trees on the right to determine the source (red marker)
- move that selector to the destination on the left (still red marker)
- move the source selector over the original position (yellow marker)
It's still not as good as the old clone, but better than I thought.1
Dear Rick, thanks for this - that is a good workaround, but still, it's like scratching behind my left ear with my right hand. I have done a couple of retouches since I last posted here and despite certain skills gained, this cannot replace the old and simple Clone Stamp. Downside is, you cannot refine edges, you can never change the shape. It's simply done before and this is the major problem. You were absolutely correct before edit: it took a couple of seconds, worked like a charm, now it's so troublesome and annoying.
But - not to be misunderstood - thank you at least for this hint how to use it. It might help in many situations.0
Rick, RE your last post --- Exactly! I actually like the way the tools work now.
Edited to add. Using the old clone tool I had to undo and redo stamps so many times because of where the source moved. Now I have discrete control of the source and really like that.1
The clone tool has evolved over several decades and how it is now is about as good as it gets. In unnecessarily re-inventing it, ON1 have made a square wheel.2
Have gone back to the previous version. The clone tool just does not work for me. It may be different, but looks and acts almost the same. PLEASE can we have the old clone tool back.1
I'm trying to clone a person out of the background.
I find that if you're not careful to completely fill in the masked area, which is hard to see with the red mask, your clone will have a hole in it. You can't add another clone on top of it unless you select a destination somewhere else and move it, but then you don't know how big to make it. In addition, the perfect brush doesn't work on a cloned area so if you want to clean it up, you can't.
SMH, so disappointed.1
I have been using your products, since before the original version of Photo Raw launched. However, I am now sorry to have to say that the Newly Launched Clone Tools are rather 'limited', (when compared to the original cloning tools which have unexpectedly been replaced), and, (if you read both the Plus Forums and the Support Forums), you will see that this change is upsetting quite a few of your previously loyal and enthusiastic supporters.
For those who only want to tidy up portraits and to complete simple cloning tasks, then the New Cloning Tools are probably good enough. But, for those of us, who edit creatively, the New Cloning Tools are not up to the job. (Ask yourself, how would you remove power and utility lines from an urban landscape?) There is therefore a danger, that some of your currently loyal users may be forced to look for other products.
Please can we have the old, (but very effective and easy to use), cloning tools back in Photo Raw? I recognise that you have probably invested a lot in the development of the new cloning tools.. But, a reasonable compromise might perhaps be to include both the old and the new tools, and to allow your Users the option to select the tools that are most appropriate to whatever cloning needs to be completed.
Best wishes, David Price1
David, you should send that directly to tech support. They are surveying the comments they receive about the changes to the Clone Stamp tool.1
That gets my vote too. Hopefully the guys at ON1 read these comments0
They don't necessarily. That is why I keep saying you have to tell support so they can include your vote in their survey.0
Just to let you know that i have followed your advice.
Best wishes David Price0
Thanks, David. That's a great example of how to write a letter advocating for something like this.0
Nathan just posted to the Plus Forums that, "The old clone stamp tool will return and be available in a future update."1
Wow, so glad to hear this.0
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