Photo RAW 2021 seems soooo slow
I just installed Photo RAW 2021 on my PC (15.0.0.9735). The software seems painfully slow / sluggish, while not really utilizing the PC hardware at its disposal. Can someone recommend some videos where I can get a feel for how responsive the UI should (or should not) be? Examples of things that feel slow:
- Opening the program and watching the preset thumbnails on the left slowly fill in.
- Zooming in/out.
- Using Retouch
- Applying presets
I need to learn this latest version of the software, but the initial feel is just so bad. I don't experience this with other graphical tools on this same PC.
My CPU doesn't seem to go above 15%, and my GPU doesn't seem to go above 15%. In Preferences, I have Memory Usage and VRAM Usage maxed at 80%. I have Video Card Strength maxed and Fast Panning, Fast Preview, and GPU Render are enabled. I'm seeing hardly any I/O on my storage, and RAM usage is under 2 GB. I have the latest version on Win10 Pro, video drivers, Photo RAW 2021. Some system details are below.
- CPU: Ryzen 9 3900X
- RAM: 128 GB @ 3200 MHz
- GPU: NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE, Driver 457.09, Windows HAGS enabled
- OS: Windows 10 Pro Version 2004 Build 19041.610
- Display: Acer Predator XB273K GP @ 4k, 120 Hz with G-Sync enabled, 150% scaling. Connected with dual DisplayPort.
- Storage: NVME SSD Sabrent Rocket PCIe 4.0 1 TB (5GB/sec) – quantity 2
I read through some articles on performance issues, but I didn't see anything that suggested other things for me to try. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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Have you added an SSD dedicated to ON1's Scratch space and PerfectBrowseCache? That will improve the program's performance as it moves the most heavily used I/O channel onto its own connection so there is no contention or waiting while other programs or the OS try to access the device at the same time.
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Possibly you've done this, but if not
go Nvidia control panel ... managde 3d settings > program settings > add On1
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Brian Lawson, yes, I have the scratch and browse cache set to a separate 5GB/s NVME SSD. The disk I/O I am monitoring is negligible -- far from the capabilities of the storage and PCIe 4.0 bus.
Peter Pfeiffer, I am running a single GPU, so the 3D setting would not apply.
Thanks!
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You still need to tell the OS to use the advanced graphics features when ON1 is running. Both the video card drivers and the OS graphics settings need to be set. See https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000551608--OpenGL-3-3-and-Later-is-Required-How-to-Update-Video-Card-Driver-Windows-Only-Photo-RAW for instructions.
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Brian Lawson, per that article, the default GPU only needs to be set if the "machine is equipped with dual GPUs." The purpose of this configuration is when a PC has multiple GPUs and to instruct the application to use the higher-power GPU. With a single GPU, the result is the same -- to use the only GPU available.
Regardless, I did try it, and the result was the same as before (i.e., poor performance).
Thanks!
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Is your GPU built-in or is it a video card with its own VRAM? If it is a built-in it gets the memory it needs from the system RAM. Built-in processors will not perform as well as a dedicated GPU.
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The GPU is an NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE, which is a discrete graphics card (i.e., not built-in).
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I'm at the limit of what I can do. I'm a Mac guy and run my Windows system in a VM. 😁 Maybe Rick or some of the other Windows will have some ideas.
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I appreciate the suggestions, Brian Lawson. Thank you!
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Rich,
You might try setting the "Power Management Mode" to "Prefer maximum performance" in the Nvidia control panel.
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Hi Rich,
I'm facing a similar problem and my system is pretty comparable to yours - only I'm still using a 1080 ti as my graphic card, and my system is only has 64GB. I have the same SSD and the same processor, and a similar 4K display.
PR 2021 seems especially slow when browsing pictures. Going from one to the next (film-strip mode) takes almost 5 seconds. Click to zoom in takes several seconds also.
I also use CaptureOne which seems lightning fast in comparison. Mouse wheel for zooming in and out is super fast and smooth also. So I don't think it's the hardware.
Tim
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In Windows under power tell it to use AMD Ryzen performance mode, in Windows under display and graphics tell it to use performance. Turn off fast panning and preview in ON1 preferences , I believe that blurs out the image and it's for lower end graphics card. I also believe you may be wrong about 3 D rendering, when I had a Nvidia card I believe I saw an improvement with it in use.
As far as CPU and GPU usage the Ryzen 3900X has 12 cores and 24 threads - not much to need to use with all that power, same with the GPU - not going to see much usage. ON1 doesn't seem to use a lot of memory.
There have been other reports earlier with version 2020 with people having issues even though then had monster computers. One was someone with a similar machine to yours and it was sluggish with ON1 for some reason. It's not a Intel vs AMD thing because ON1 works fine with my Ryzen. Other than what I've listed, not sure what else you can do.0 -
David Kick, changing the power management mode to prefer maximum performance seems to have helped. The UI is still sluggish, but it doesn't seem as bad. I'll keep testing.
Tim Mayer, my filmstrip mode seams OK. My click to zoom is also OK. Zooming with the slider seems a bit better with David's recommendation, but it's still a bit jerky. I am testing with an ~18MB RAW NEF. If I compare performance with acdsee Photo Studio Ultimate 2021 (with my current settings), Photo Studio is significantly smoother.
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Vinny Giannino, my power plan is set to "AMD Ryzen High Performance" (CPU min at 100%). Comparing to "High performance," it appears to be identical. I have tried the 3D settings -- no change. I'm not sure if I can tell a difference with fast panning and fast preview turned off; I'll continue to try it both ways.
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Has anyone mentioned catalogs in this thread?
I rebuilt my catalogs after installing 2021 and while they were building 2021 just sucked up all of my resources (cpu pinned and 8gb ram maxed)) and I couldn't do much of anything until they finished.
On the plus side, they finished WAY faster than with 2020 and now that they are done 2021 is working very smoothly.
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Fast Panning turns off the GPU rendering when you scroll through an image. You won't see it until you are viewing an image larger than your screen and you use the Hand tool to scroll through it. The image will be rendered at a low res blur while it is being panned.
Fast Preview has the same effect while brushing. With that option turned on, when you make a brush stroke you see the lower res preview.
I keep Fast Panning on and Fast Preview off until brushing becomes intolerably slow. So far I've only turned it off once or twice. Usually I'll adjust the Video Card Strength lower until performance returns. I've only needed to make adjustments when working on large images — big panos or multi-layered files. I reset it for my next photo edit.
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When modifying Preferences such as Memory Usage and Performance, do I need to restart the application for them to take effect? (I have been, to be safe.)
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As far as catalogs, I have not done anything with catalogs yet. I had the 2020 trial installed. No uninstall option was available in Windows, so I had to use the ON1 script to wipe all ON1 components from my system. I then did a clean install of 2021 and have been playing with a dozen test photos.
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There are a couple of them that need restarting but I don't remember which off the top of my head.
If a restart is needed the program displays a dialog informing you the change won't take affect until it has been restarted.
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ON1 2021 is slower than earlier and there are changes which are visible. Simple example...Take a few 100 files (or maybe 1000s) and catalog that folder. Your keyboard and mouse clicks will not be responsive till the previews are built. Scrolling works as before though only using the trackpad.
Once the previews are built, just scroll through the images and click to select any one. There is a visible delay. Now, click any image around this one and you will see the same delay.
Try the same in 2020 to see the real difference.
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Responsiveness always sucks while catalogs are building, this is nothing new, however, I find they build much faster now.
I rebuilt my catalogs after installing 2021 (clean install). If I click on my top 2020 photo folder and select show subfolders, that's around 1500 photos. 2021 scrolls through them way better than 2020 ever did. No blank previews now while I had plenty of those in 2020.
There is a very slight delay when selecting a photo but nothing significant and certainly not a problem.
In addition, I find brushing in 2021 very smooth even when zoomed in where it used to often be jerky just at normal resolution.
My finding is that while 2021 is not perfect it works much better and is faster than 2020.
Keep in mind I'm using a 10yo 2.66ghz quad core CPU with 8gb ram and GTX760 GPU.
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You have an experienced machine Rick Sammartino ...Mine is a newbie :)
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What's really odd on my system also, is that when in "Browse" it seems insanely slow (5+ seconds moving between photos). But when in "Edit", it seems OK. I've even enabled dual screen when in "Edit" and it seems decent.
These are large 46MB NEF files from a D850, so perhaps that's part of the problem.
I've tried various GPU settings in preferences, but no significant changes. I've also tried configuring ON1 as "High performance" in windows and even turned on "Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling" which is suppose to improve NVidia graphics performance.
I believe something similar happened with the 2020 release, then a month or so later they released an update that resolved the issue - on my system anyway. Guess I'll just hope the same thing happens this time around - or I'll open a ticket with support.
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I was having the same sluggish performance in browse Tim. I noticed after a while my NVidia didn't have the latest driver update, once I updated the driver ON1 in browse became lighting fast. It was taking 10 to 20 seconds just to render a preview in browse before this driver update!
2021 is still a little bit buggy for me in some other areas but it seems to be working quite well compared to some previous versions over the last few years!
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And I think the current (latest) NVIDIA drivers are quite buggy, with the 3000 GPU series updates. Hopefully, upcoming driver updates will help in general.
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I've tried updating to the latest NVidia drivers, even performed the clean driver install. Also tried switching between "Studio" and "Game Ready" drivers, but also no real change. Hopefully either the drivers or an update from ON1 fixes the issue.
It's just incredible that Capture One 20 is lightning fast, probably orders of magnitude, on the same system. The feature set of ON1 is far better then Capture One, but raw processing performance on Capture One is really amazing. My wish is that ON1 could get close to that - I would even be willing to do a video card upgrade if that would help.
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On my machine, it is much slower than 2020.
I have reported 6 bugs in the same day for 2021.
One is a major flaw with the Retouch Tools when building an EFFECT mask with "color selection" or "lumen". This flaw, if not corrected rapidly, will make me abandon PR for good as it makes it unusable !
Hoping year after year for improvements in PR... they come but they add new bugs that make me look elsewhere everytime...Thing that go well one day don't always go well the day after... Even uninstalling 2020 is a mess and doesn't work properly (been talking with tech support about this as well).
The main reason why I keep PR is because their support is #1 compared to other raw editors, however I'd love to have On1 test new versions of software with photographers. I don't like to be their tester !
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Yvan,
I find 2021 faster than 2020. Make sure you've updated your graphics card to point to 2021.
I don't think I've heard of the 'major flaw' you've mentioned until now. Can you post examples?
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I echo Rick's response. 2021 is faster
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I'm sure it is faster for some, but the problem is that for others its dramatically slower. I actually have a laptop that runs faster than my desktop, but my laptop specs are way below my desktop. So something is seriously wrong with PR2021 with some hardware configurations.
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