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Modifying/Painting Masks

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16 comments

  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Yes, flow will allow you to paint as much or as little of the mask as you want. It's like using an airbrush when painting.

    It's hard for me to tell you exactly how to fix your mask. All I can do is instruct you on how the tools work. That's why I suggested painting on an all white canvas so you can get a feel for how all those options work & interact. Then you'll be able to find the combination you need for the task you want to accomplish.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    There are separate opacity controls for the brush and the mask as a whole. Density also affects the entire mask.

    Density controls the opacity of the black part of the mask to allow the effect to be applied partly to those areas that have been masked out.

    Opacity controls the white part to reduce the effect from areas it has been applied to.

    The Opacity slider controls how opaque the brush is as you paint. It is additive. If you set it to 50% and paint an area then paint over that area again with a new brush stroke you'll have applied 100% of the brush to the overlapping areas.

    Photo RAW 2021 has a new control called Flow. This is similar to Opacity except you don't have to lift the brush to start a new stroke. The longer you leave the brush in any one place the more of the mask will be painted in that area.

    To get a feel for how these all interrelate try this.

    • Create a New Canvas say 8 x 10. Use the Layer > Add Color Fill… and fill it with white.
    • Click in the Color Fill Mask and select the Brush. Set it's Feather to 100, Opacity at 100, Flow 100, and pick a medium-small size.
    • Turn on Pressure Adjusts Size option. Now paint and vary the pressure as you drag. You should see the size of the brush vary with the pressure. (Top right to bottom left below.)
    • Now use the option Pressure Adjusts Opacity by itself. Paint again and watch what happens. (Top left to bottom right.)
    • Once you know it is working you'll start to get a feel for how it works and you can try using both options for finer control. (Squiggly lines.)
    • I didn't show it in the example below, but repeat the process with the Brush Opacity set to 100% and Flow to something small like 5-10%.

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  • Dave McNeill

    Hi Brian,

    I appreciate the quick response. You told me a lot, but if you told me how to fix my problem, I must have missed it. Are you suggesting that Flow may be the solution I'm looking for?

    Also, I only use a mouse, so pressure-sensitivity is of no use to me.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    I don't understand where the grey portion of the mask in the original post came from. Ai wouldn't make it grey.

     

     

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  • Dave McNeill

    Brian - thanks. It kind of works, but it would take lots and lots of practice to get it to work well enough with a mouse. I'll have to find another way of doing things.

    Rick - the grey came from me reducing the Density of the mask layer in order to adjust its impact. The white became grey, the black was untouched. I tried restoring the Density to 100% and then painting in the missing bit. That worked, until I then reduced the Density again, at which point the patch I'd just painted in remained white as the rest of it went grey again. I don't get that. It's like it put the patch on a separate layer, but that layer is not visible or controllable.

    Granted, this was never a great technique in PS, but it worked to the extent that I could paint what needed to be painted. Somewhere in On1 I saw a tool for painting with color, but it doesn't seem to be an option in masks, which is too bad.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    The only time I've seen something like this is when paining over a masking bug. That's because the bug and the paint are on 2 different layers then added together.

    I don't see how an AI mask can act like a masking bug unless you created this mask in a different way that we're unaware of.

    If you were talking about painting over a gradient masking bug which does create this problem, I'd say just delete the bug, do your painting, then add the bug back.

    This what you get when you try to fix an area that has a gradient on it. It's not possible to match the opacity...

    But if you just remove the bug, do the painting and put the bug back, it looks like this.

    for reference, this what is being masked...

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  • Dave McNeill

    Dunno, Rick. Your example does look like what I ended up with, but I didn't use a gradient on that image. It wouldn't have been appropriate, because this is the image. I just separated the statue from the background.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Alright, so there is definitely some weirdness going on.

    I was thinking that the AI mask would have to behave like a Masking bug in order to cause this problem, but after a lot of playing around, I find that it's actually the Invert thats doing magical things.

    Here is an example of what I found...

    Started off with this. White area on the left, black area on the right and a black and a white circle on each.

     

     

    Using the density slider, everything reacts as you'd expect.

     

    now invert the mask and add 4 more circles

     

    Now 2 of the circles no longer respond as expected, they act like they are on a separate layer just like a masking bug would.

     

    It's the mask that was there BEFORE the invert that acts like it's now a bug and the 2 white circles act just as brushed circles would,

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  • Dave McNeill

    Excellent job of analyzing the issue, Rick! Did you happen to try re-inverting prior to updating it to see if that helped?

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Yes, once it's been inverted the first time, brush strokes are no longer affected by the Density slider even if you invert back it again.

    These are 4 new circles added after flipping back again and they don't change with the density slider now.

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  • Dave McNeill

    Yeesh! It doesn't seem like it this is how they intended for it to work. Maybe I did something the didn't expect anyone to do.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Actually, it is how it works, for masking bugs anyway. It makes sense because the bug is on one level and the brushed mask is on a second level. What you see is a combination of them both.

    The situation is unique in this case because it all starts on the first level and works fine until it's inverted, then suddenly all of that goes to the second level while further brushing stays on the first.

    If you play with masking bugs where the behaviour stays consistent, you'll see what I mean.

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  • Dave McNeill

    With the different levels, does that happen whenever I change tools? Like from AI to brush? I didn't intend to create layers while working on a single mask.

    BTW, I really appreciate all the education you're giving me on this. I'm also reading articles and viewing videos on various aspects of On1.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Don't confuse layers with Layers. 😁

    I always capitalize the L when talking about the Layers we explicitly create by stacking multiple images. These show up in the Layers section of the right sidebar.

    When I use the lowercase I'm talking about the internal layers that the program creates to hold the various effects and adjustments and their masks. These are the levels Rick is talking about.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Thanks, Brian.

    Yes, it's confusing sometimes with all of the different layers and masks especially when trying to explain to someone who is new to it all.

    As Brian says, the layers (small L) I'm referring to are internal to the masking mechanism.

    You don't have acccess to them individually, but they are easy to see, just open any masking option, brush something, then drop a masking bug on it. If you view the mask, you'll see a combination of the brush and the bug, but they aren't actually combined, they are each on their own internal layer. You can delete the bug or move it around without affecting the brushing.

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  • Dave McNeill

    Thanks, guys. There's enough that I like about it that I bought it yesterday. Unfortunately, I have another issue, now, which I'll post separately, unless I find an existing thread on it.

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