Latest On1 Photo Raw
Hi all,
If you're like me, I was sick and tired of Adobe's stranglehold on us with their latest money making scheme of subscription-based software. It wasn't that it was too expensive for Lightroom for photographers at only $9.99 a month, but I was tired of paying and paying, then paying more.
I was then looking for a new software solution. In 2018 I started using On1 Photo Raw and was impressed. I started weening myself off of Lightroom (I still have an older non-subscription version installed to help with the weening process). Then Photo Raw 2020 came and it's purchase price was only $50 before taxes. I jumped at the new version, and further weened myself.
Now Photo Raw 2021 came out, but the software price is now at par or more than the subscription to Adobe! I want to add that I'm not a professional photographer with deep pockets and the ability to recoup the cost by selling my photos; I'm a hobbyist.Of course I realize On1 needs to continue to make money. I'm not naive. But they don't have the user base to keep hobbyists interested in their product. Hear me out.
In Adobe's defense there are tons of How-to tutorials out there for any version a photographer might be using at that time. I wish On1 had a stronger user base help the hobbyist that aren't going to upgrade every single time a new one comes out. I don't need the latest and greatest, but now all I see on On1 is tips and tricks for 2021. Yes, it would be nice to have, but for the hobbyist, it's not economical to continually upgrade, just like I don't continually upgrade my gear every time Canon or Nikon decides to add another edition. I upgrade when there are enormous advantages and plenty of information that say "This is it!".
What are your thoughts on this? Am I the only one that is thinking of going back to evil Adobe?
Thanks!
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All the training videos for the previous versions are still available. Yes, all the new training material is directed at 2021 as should be expected.
You can find training videos on the ON1 site at https://www.on1.com/videos/. They also have a YouTube channel you can search for.
There are also people like Matt Kloskowski and Scott Davenport among others that produce excellent training videos. The material is there, all you have to do is look for it.
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But it's not extensive. If they're the ones I've seen they're basic with no "Pro tips" sort of thing. I've seen all the videos on On1, some twice, but because there are so limited they don't address the issues I'm working with.
Thanks for your quick reply.
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Have you considered a Plus subscription? There are more advanced multi-part tutorials there that you would otherwise have to purchase. Some of them are sold on the instructor's web sites.
You can also ask the users here for help with your issues. This is a very supportive community with a lot of users of all experience levels in hardware and software that are willing to help when they are able.
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Richard, I'll have to look into subscription, but that was the whole point though. I didn't like Adobe's new business model of subscription based software, and that was one of On1's appeal at the start. I wouldn't need to pay monthly installments. Now in order to get access to tutorials and resources I'll need to subscribe. That and the learning curve from Adobe to On1, this isn't what I signed up for. I understand that it's a company with employees and overhead. They need money. I get it. But the price for upgrading from 2020 to 2021 is crazy. That's the upgrade price?? I guess I'll stick with 2020 until 2022 or 2023 and then think about it if I haven't moved back to Adobe by then.
Thanks for hearing me out. I was just wondering if other On1 customers felt similarly as I or was I unique.
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The only reason to need an On1 Plus subscription is to see the Plus videos, all of the others are free. If you can watch them all in a month, then you only need a months subcription.
If you do this later in the year, there will be more 2021 based videos available.
Edit: I see you're still with 2020, so all of those videos are available now to Plus subcribers.
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I understand and fully agree with Emmet considerations.
ON1 should try to bild loyalty with its customers. The price to be payed for annual upgrade and the limited number of real improvements and enhanched features do not entice the average (non professional) user to purchase the latest issue.
I really like ON1 PR but personally I can wait few years before invest 70%-80% of the value of the software I already have in hand
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I had the same issue initially with Adobe Emmett Gonzales. I am also a hobbyist, but, after having paid for some others including ON1 2020 and 2021, I find they are all well short of LR so far. IMO, only 2 apps actually work...LR and C1. Unfortunately, C1 cannot handle large catalogs and the organising ability is not at the LR level, so, I remain with LR for now.
ON1 and Luminar remain good as toys to have :)
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The reality is that if you want to have the latest and best software, whatever brand that you are using. Then you are going to have to pay. Because in the background, there are coders and developers, who are working very hard to push their product forwards. And those guys need to be paid.
Adobe has been developing Photo Shop for well over 25 years and Lightroom for well over 15 years. When the Adobe Subscription plan was first launched, the Economist Magazine praised it as an act of genius. They predicted that photographers would be captured and forced to keep on paying out, just so that they could use the product. Also the pressure on Adobe to improve their products would be removed. So, Adobe could cut costs by stopping software development. Then just sit back and count the ever growing cash pile. At the time it was praised as a 'win win for investors'.
And indeed, immediately after Adobe’s never, never, subscription plan was launched, Adobe did indeed appear to go into hibernation. And at the time a couple of computer magazines expressed profound regret, at the way that Adobe had ceased to improve it's products.
Unfortunately for Adobe, their plan didn't work. Adobe had unintentionally created a gap in the marketplace, into which a handful of new rivals jumped. The competition from Affinity, Luminar, DXO, etc. is so intense, that it has forced Adobe to (a) cut it's subscription plan prices, and (b) to hire new coders and to begin to develop their products. Which is the polar opposite of the much praised 'win win for investors'. The new rivals to Adobe, have produced a win win for photographers.
At my Camera Club, the Committee is as dedicated a group of Adobe Fans as you could ever hope to meet. However, when they polled the membership, (they were clearly expecting that almost everyone would be using their favourite software), they got a shock. And, this profound change in the marketplace, is reflected in ON1’s decision to make it’s products compatible, (as plug ins), with a much wider range of products. Why should they not go after the growing market?
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Totally agree with you on the competition part David Price. I believe ON1 also mentioned being around for 15 years. All depends on what works for you and what does not. I think most companies now have a subscription model as well and it could become the default for most. There are costs to developing and maintaining the software and related infrastructure.
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I think that ON1 is now a little over 15 years old. Photo Raw must be about 6 years old now.
Yes, there are good economical reasons that are driving subscription models. I still have friends who are using Lightroom 6 and Photoshop CS6, and from Adobe's point of view, they are a dead loss, because they use the product and own the product. So they don't need to keep filling Adobe's coffers.
The fact is that Photo Raw works for me.
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Just like Emmett I am also a hobbyist and to a point agree to what he posted in the OP but I think also as most (and correct me if I am wrong) hobbyist tend to purchase when they start out far to many options when software comes into play, I for one started with Adobe P/S and L/R but then came along the rest after Adobe changed there game plan to subscriptions, On1, Affinity Photo,Skylum and the list goes on, then on top of that you have for the HDR crowd (I used to be one) Photomatix, HDR Expose etc etc and the Topaz bait at the end of the line was FREE updates for life but then they changed the name of the products and along came the yearly update costs. Again as Emmett says the cost of updating every year (for me now on a pension) is to expensive and there are as far as I no not one company offers a discount for OAP's (On1 are you listening?) be a student and your OK!! Now I have calmed it all down and use just On1 and Topaz, I did have L/R 6 but now removed it but just because with the progress in software it is way to old. Will I upgrade to On1 2021? no not this time not really enough to justify it for me. Tutorials from both On1 and Topaz mostly what you need without going to the Plus subscription (more expense). The only gripe I have on tutorials no matter who posts them is that 99% are either on Landscape or Portraits I now am to old to go running up and down mountains and along rocky beach fronts to get early sun rises or sun sets and portraits are not really my thing but Wildlife and Birds are and I could count how many videos tutorials there are on that subject from On1 on one hand over the last two or three years. Russ.
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I know what you mean Russell Webb. I do wildlife as well. I had pulled back some videos I had made with ON1 2020 since it was very unstable, not that 2021 is much better since it adds new issues, but, will make some new ones for ON1 with a disclaimer :)
You can check out http://youtube.nitin.site for some that include ON1 and LR for the same kind of processing.
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I have updated to PR 2021. But, I agree that the cost of software subscriptions can be difficult for the retired to manage. And, I can see that at the camera club. There are some really tallented photographers, who have earnt their international awards. But, they are now living on modest/declining incomes. Which could well explain why so many are trying to keep old/pre-subscription software going.
Is there enough new stuff in PR 2021 to be worth buying? The answer to that can only be a personal decision. Each of us will reach a different conclusion. I'm not interested in portraits, or the new Portrait Ai. But, the colour masking improvements are certainly worthwhile.
I think that Plus stepped up a gear during the initial stages of the virus lockdowns. But, the members do tend to drive the content. I suspect that ON1 gets a lot more requests for new courses on Macro, Portraits, Landscapes, than they do for wildlife. And ON1 seems to respond to the Plus Member's requests.
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Dave if 'ON1 seems to respond to the Plus Member's requests. ' then that is way out of order, I bet more people own the software than there are plus members so they should be listening to software customers first and formost. Russ.
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Sorry Russell
I think that you have taken hold of the wrong end of the stick.
When it comes to the content of the ON1 Plus Site, it is absolutely right for ON1 to listen to the Members of Plus, as they are ultimately the ones who are paying for the content. ( i.e. the Plus Members are the Customers of the ON1 Plus Site).
When it comes to changes to Photo Raw, etc. ON1 listens to a number of different sources. They listen to the Photo Raw Project, they listen to the Support Forums, they listen to the Plus Forums, and also to complaints.
ON1 has an excellent track record in which they have demonstrated that they really do listen to their customers. The recent changes to the cloning tools, and ON1’s positive and constructive response, are yet another good example of listening to customers.
And Nitin. Like you, I did have problems with running my copies of Photo Raw. But, I eventually realised that the problems were not caused by ON1’s software. All of the problems were caused by my hardware. I made minor but significant upgrades to my laptops, and PR 2020.5.1. became very stable, and worked really well. So, too does PR 2021.
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Ah well...Works for some and does not for others David Price. I use Macs and a fairly decent configuration. No hardware issues on my side. I already paid 2wice for ON1 in a 6-month timespan, which is more than a year for the Adobe subscription.
No, I do not agree about the support part. As a comparison, which I have mentioned earlier, I made just one comment in the Adobe forum about LR 10 in response to another similar comment and within a couple of days I landed up with a beta asking me to check out and confirm if the issues were fixed.
Actually, even Skylum is quite responsive...As also C1.
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Like others, I decided to drop my Lightroom subscription in favour of On1. I chose On1 for its similar UI and because there is a migration tool. Sadly, the latter didn't work very well but, due to the lockdown, it gave me a chance to re-edit many of my photos and learn what's different about On1. I started off on a slower Mac, and used the external SSD ruse to try to speed things up. There were occasional crashes and glitches and I did lose edits when I moved some folders off an external drive to the internal SSD when I bought the newest MacBook Pro a few months ago.
I also use Topaz DeNoise and Sharpen quite a bit, but would have needed those even if I'd stuck with LR, since they do a far superior job, especially on my wildlife shots since I don't have a top of range telephoto. I have Luminar 4, which I bought on a whim for the sky replacement tool. It's all I have used it for, and have no intention of moving on to Luminar AI.
I did however decide to upgrade to On1 2021, mainly because it promised a slideshow tool. I wasn't really interested in the Portrait AI function or any of the other new features. Sadly, the slideshow tool is totally useless for my purpose, which is to show slides on my 4k TV using AirPlay. There is, as far as I know, no way to show the slides in a designated order; it seems to be totally random. If anyone can suggest a work-round I'd be grateful. Maybe I need to create albums first?
Anyway, so far, On1 2021 has proved a disappointment for me. Part of me is tempted to ask for my money back and return to 2020.
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On my system Slideshow is displaying the images in the same order as they are displayed in the Browser. It starts with whichever photo has been super-selected — the one with the brightest highlight. Changing the sort order or dragging the images into a custom order all worked as I expected.
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Brian,
I take back what I said. You are perfectly correct. You have to super select the starting image (highlighted in blue). I also tested further by moving some images around and they showed in the new order when I ran the slideshow.
Many thanks as always. This is not mentioned in the new Guide to On1 2021 by the way.
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I know, I checked too. 😎
The new problem I have is that the program is stuck on the last image that the slideshow displayed. I've selected a new image in a different folder but the display remains previewing that last slideshow image regardless of being in the Browser or Edit mode or which view mode I've chosen. Support request already filed.
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I reported a similar problem with 2020.5 that support was unable to duplicate. Anyone care to try?
I was editing an image then used the Filmstrip & arrow keys while still in the Editor to move to a new image to work on. When I returned to the Browser, the 1st image I had opened the editor with was still being displayed by the Browser even though I had a different photo selected.
For me this is reproducible upon demand and is still a problem in 2021.
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Brian I don't think I am getting what you are getting with regard to the stuck image form slideshow.
However:
I begin in fullscreen mode
Start a slideshow. During the slideshow the cursor toggles between the pointer and the eyeglass icon ( I don't want to see that at all). Images take a second or so to snap into focus.
Stop the slideshow and am returned to "normal" mode (ie not fullscreen). The image is the last one from the slideshow.
Hit the G key and am returned to browse mode as normal.
I will take a look at your other problem and see if I can duplicate it (on Mac OS Catalina)
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Hi Brian
I just tried out your error with selection of images between Browse and Edit, when in Filmstrip Mode.
Perhaps it is because I an using Photo Raw in Windows 10 ? But, I could not reproduce the error, sorry.
Best wishes David Price
PS I can't comment on the 'slide show,' as I have never needed to use it.
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Thanks David. I suspect this is probably a Mac thing and possibly just a MacBook Pro thing.
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Brian
No I am not able to reproduce your filmstrip issue (if I understand you correctly)
Started in Photo view and edited an image
Hit F key to open film strip
Used arrow key to move to next image but one and edited that image.
Hit G key and the second image remained highlighted.
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Highiighted yes, but what happens when you hit the E key to view it single image mode? That's where I get the 1st image's preview.
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Hitting the E key is the same: it stays with the more recent image.
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Thanks. Want to try another one?
1) Open any image in the Editor
2) Select the Brush and Paint Out a portion of the image
3) Return to the Browser
4) Choose the Reset All command from the Setting menu
5) Watch the preview update — I see the white area below the transparency I painted in become black.
6) Return to Editor and the mask is still there. It can be cleared by using the Reset button in the Layer's mask controls.0 -
Brian
You'll have to take me through Step 2 in detail, as I am not sure what I am supposed to be doing. I am only accustomed to use the brush for dodging and burning!
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The idea is just to create a mask. It doesn't have to be an actual usable mask, just a mask to illustrate the problem. I just drew a diagonal line across the image to create a transparent streak.
I've reported it to support and it's been logged as a bug. Thanks for playing along. :)
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