Updated version too unstable on Mac M1
Answered
Updated to the latest version last week (15.5.0.10396). At first, it seemed performing good. But after a couple of days it again crashes. Especially when working in Albums. At first did some pretty heavy Advanced Search and turned the results into Albums. That went fast. No problems there anymore. But then, when selecting some of the photos in the Albums, right-clicking, and choosing ' Remove from Album'....the program crashed. Again.
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First, reset the program. I know it's a PITA but I'm not having any problems with the latest 10396 build on my M1 Mini.
Second, see if you can find a repeatable cause for the crash then post it here as well as sending it to support. I'd like to see if I can replicate your problem.
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Problem submitted to support. Crashing occurs random. But always when selecting multiple photos in Albums (Command-Click), and then right-click to bring up the menu, and select Remove from Album. Sometimes no crash, sometimes when selecting the second photo, sometimes after selecting more than two photos, sometimes when right-clicking to bring up the menu, and sometimes after choosing Remove from Album.
Suggested to support that could it be, they made a patch for Big Sur 11.3.0, but in the passed week Apple send out an update to Big Sur 11.3.1?
Another 'glitch': when I choose Shift-F to watch a photo full screen, and then hit G to go back to Grid-view, my screen 'glitches' in way that in a flash it shows me my screen's background to then show ON1 grid view.
Otherwise: did some pretty heavy editing last weekend. From On1 to Luminar AI and back, to Topaz Denoize Ai en Sharpen AI. Al apps open at the same time....nor problems. ON1 is performing very very well. It's just that I still save a lot in between because I don't trust the stability yet.
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To reset the program after a crash you have to clear the crash report dialog first. Start the program normally and either send the crash report or not but then Quit the program immediately. Now when it starts again there will not be a crash dialog to get in the way of resetting the program so start it with a Shift key pressed. Now you can reset it.
Neither of Apple's OS updates has any affect on what is going on with Photo RAW. The 2nd update in particular was just a security fix but an important one to eliminate an actively exploited hole in the security.
I'm seeing the Shift-F thing also. When you leave Full Screen Preview the screen splits halves and you get a kind of wipe effect as one half takes over the whole screen. I reported this the other day as well. It has no affect on my ability to use the program so no big deal. Until I can test on a different system I'm assuming this could be a Rosetta emulation issue.
I've been doing a lot of work with my Albums and so far I haven't seen any crashes. I'll do some more testing today to see if I can replicate your problem and of course I'll report it to support if I see it myself. From your description though, it sounds to me like the kind of problem that a reset will solve.
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Are the albums you are working with published to the ON1's cloud sync service?
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OK, I did a total reset. Rebuild the Catalogue, and then rebuild the (lost) Albums. BTW, thanks for your tip earlier to use keywords...saves a lot of time.
Then, same problem. Command-clicking several pictures, right-click to pull up the menu, choose 'remove from album' first no problem. But after doing so several times--crash, at random amount of selected pictures, and at random steps in the process of selecting through choosing 'remove'.
No the albums are not published to the ON1's cloud sync service.
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OK, thanks for that. I'll play around with albums today and see if I can replicate the problem.
You can thank Rick for the album keywords idea. I got it from him.
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HI, same here!
Random crashes to desktop after removing photos from albums! (Big Sur), latest version (which runs worse than the previous one)
Not sent to support, I'm sure they cannot reproduce it. It happens at random, apparently.
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You should still send the crash logs so the engineers have something to work with.
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>>UPDATE: Just removed the named files from my disk to see what happens. Problem stays the same. But now, when I look in the logfile, the problem with trying to rename is gone.
I'm out of ideas now. Let's hope support will fix it coming period. The main thing is editing, and that works just fine, so let's wait it out now.<<
Brian,
Maybe this means something to you.
When I look in ON1 Photo RAW Log.txt, i can see the activities right before the application crashed.
Somehow, it seems as if it is trying to rename some files, over and over again. Files that I cannot recount that I have ever tried to rename. At least, not in the last couple of weeks. Or at least not at any time around when the crash problems have started (after switching to release .5.
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[ 88323] 2021-05-10 15:28:26 ON1 - ONNDReconciler[INFO] Fixing mis-named file from /Volumes/FOTODISK/MIJN FOTOS/vakanties en tripjes/amerika - 2009/07. LA to LV/On the Road 07.psd to "On The Road 07.psd".
[ 88323] 2021-05-10 15:28:27 ON1 - ONNDReconciler[INFO] Fixing mis-named file from /Volumes/FOTODISK/MIJN FOTOS/vakanties en tripjes/amerika - 2010/09. Washington/capitool.jpg to "Capitool.jpg".
2021-05-10 15:28:30 ON1* - load Finished
[ 88323] 2021-05-10 15:28:32 ON1 - ONNDReconciler[INFO] Fixing mis-named file from /Volumes/FOTODISK/MIJN FOTOS/vakanties en tripjes/amerika - 2009/07. LA to LV/On the Road 07.psd to "On The Road 07.psd".
[ 88323] 2021-05-10 15:28:32 ON1 - ONNDReconciler[INFO] Fixing mis-named file from /Volumes/FOTODISK/MIJN FOTOS/vakanties en tripjes/amerika - 2010/09. Washington/capitool.jpg to "Capitool.jpg".
[ 88323] 2021-05-10 15:28:37 ON1 - ONNDReconciler[INFO] Fixing mis-named file from /Volumes/FOTODISK/MIJN FOTOS/vakanties en tripjes/amerika - 2009/07. LA to LV/On the Road 07.psd to "On The Road 07.psd".
[ and so on for many more times, until...]
[m259] 2021-05-10 15:29:53 ON1 - BRController::shutdown() Stop ND Listener.
[m259] 2021-05-10 15:29:53 ON1 - BRController::shutdown() Stop ON1 Sync Listener.
[m259] 2021-05-10 15:29:53 ON1 - BRController::shutdown() Stop ES Listener.
[m259] 2021-05-10 15:29:53 ON1 - BRController::shutdown() Release ND Service.
[m259] 2021-05-10 15:29:53 ON1 - BRController::shutdown() Stop PS Listener.
[m259] 2021-05-10 15:29:53 ON1 - BRController::shutdown() Stop Preview Bridge.
[m259] 2021-05-10 15:29:53 ON1 - BRController::shutdown() Shutdown Grid Controller.
[m259] 2021-05-10 15:29:53 ON1 - BRController::shutdown() Stop FS watchers.
2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Starting Shutdown.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Stopping the task manager.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Stopping preview discovery.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Stopping preview generation.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Closing the sandbox.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Stopping ES listener.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Stopping ND listener.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Stopping the photo settings cache.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Stopping data sources.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Catalog watcher controller.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Data source watcher controller.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Data source controller.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Shutting down ON1 Sync.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - ON1 Sync: Shutting down the sync thread.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - ON1 Sync: Shutting down the controller.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - ON1 Sync: Waiting for controller scheduler thread to finish.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - ON1 Sync: Waiting for controller thread pool to finish.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - ON1 Sync: Shutting down the working cache.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - ON1 Sync: Shutting down the cache.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - ON1 Sync: Shutting down the model.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - ON1 Sync: Shutdown took 68 ms.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Stopping metadata extractor.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Flushing ES messages.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Shutting down Explore Service.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Catalog watcher controller.
2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Event (1063) on line 644 of ONExploreCatalogWatcherController.cpp
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Data source watcher controller.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Data source controller.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Shutting down ND Service.
[ 68891] 2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown: Shutting down the cache manager.
2021-05-10 15:29:54 ON1 - Shutdown complete in 370 ms.0 -
No, that doesn't mean too much to me.
Have you taken a look at any of those paths in the Finder to see if there is some kind of problem with those files?
Have you taken a look at the CorruptFiles.log to see if there's anything in there related to those paths?
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How is your FOTODISK volume formatted? The \ character is used by Windows as a path separator where the Mac OS uses /.
That should not make any difference as the Mac OS can read and write DOS formatted disks.
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I'm not having any problems with my albums. I created a new album to use for testing and added images from a folder and its sub-folders. I randomly selected photos in the album using both command-click and shift-click to make my selections. I used the contextual menu, the command under the Album menu, and the shift-del hotkey.
I added more images to the album from a different location and some from the original location and repeated all the deleting tests.
Everything is working OK for me.
Have you run Disk First Aid or one of the 3rd party drive verification tools to check the directory structure on that FOTODISK volume?
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Copied a bunch of photos to my MacBook M1's harddrive. Catalogued them, and created some Albums to try and work with those. No problems at all. Hooked up my SanDisk 1TB SSD (thunderbolt ready) to test with Albums...and there's the problem again.
Did the same on my iMac 2012 (yep, still going strong). No problems there with the external SSD (using thunderbolt to USB cable).
On my 'old' MacBook Pro (Intel), Big Sur 11.3.1. No problems there with the external SSD.Ran two disk checkers on the SSD. No problems, no repairs needed.
So it seems to be a problem in Albums with working on/from an external drive on the MacBook Pro M1.
Could it be the way the external SSD was formatted (ExFAT)?
Erased the external drive and formatted it to MacOS journaled. Put the pictures back on and hooked it up to de M1 again to see what it did...same problem. First couple of changes in the Albums are OK, but then crash after crash.
I'm out of ideas now...
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FWIW, my photos are on an external SSD but it is APFS formatted. I've got a spare drive I'll format ExFAT and try with that.
Like I said, it shouldn't make any difference but who knows? I'll let you know what happens,
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Formatted the drive to APFS. Rolling back pictures now. As soon as ready and Catalogues are rebuild, I'll give it go with the APFS disc.
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I'm out of options for now.
Problem is still there. Even worse, it now also occurs when browsing through my catalogued folders.
Funny thing, when you hover your mouse over the catalogued folder icon, you can see the percentage of the catalogued process. That number is all over the place: from 100 to 10 to 0 to 30 and so forth.In all, I can't rationalize it, except that the problems started with the .5 version. I can't shake the impression that the application or the M1 'chokes' itself or kinda 'stumbles' with the external drive. The performance is insanely fast, it's like it can't keep up with writing/searching to an external SSD. That, because no problems at all on my good old iMac and MacBook.
Luckily the editing has no problems whatsoever, and again, it is amazingly fast.
Do you have any further suggestions?
And do you know if Support has received any of these kind of problems yet?0 -
I haven't hear of anyone else having this problem. My spare drive just finished making the ExFAT partition for me to test with. I'll let you know what I find.
FWIW, when I was running on my MacBook Pro Photo RAW would occasionally have a problem finding my Scratch drive. I'd launch the program and as soon as the splash screen came up the Scratch drive would get dismounted. When this happened it was usually the first launch of the day but it didn't happen all the time. I tried different kinds of SSDs, cables, & enclosures and nothing would help with the problem. I'd have to quit the the program, unplug the drive and plug it back in so it would mount again (Disk Utility would not see it anymore to just remount it.) then I could run the program again.
Since I moved to the Mini I haven't seen that happen again. I have no idea why.
I've seen the same thing with the Catalog progress while it is still being rebuilt. It usually takes a couple of hours on my system to finish rebuilding them.
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Searching on keywords makes it crash now too. But with the same kind of sequence: first two to three attempts no problems (super fast even), but then, at the third or fourth go, a crash.
Tried lowering the quality of the preview thumbs. Nope, not the solution.
So I'm out of options now.
The editing process works amazingly fast. Did some heavy testing on that again, sending back and forth to other apps, adding layers, effects and all...no problems and a joy to work with.
So I think I am gonna leave it for what it is, annoying, nothing more.
Thanks for thinking and trying along, Brian!
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I'm not able to duplicate any of your problems Jaap, sorry. Keywords, catalogs, and albums all work with the ExFAT volume as well as the APFS volume.
When next month's update is released I would consider wiping the current installation before updating.
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I spoke too soon. I was doing more work with albums and keywords and finally the program crashed. It had been running for over 2 hours before the crash though.
How much RAM do you have in your system Jaap? I've got a 16GB model. Just before the program crashed I got a warning from a memory manager app I run. I wonder if there is a memory leak?
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OK, this may sound strange, but I am sort of glad that this happened to you (and Gianni above) too.
8Gb.
I run the CleanMyMac X monitor in the background and that too screams havoc that I am running out of Gigs. I've monitored it with the Mac's activity monitor too, with the same results. But when I take a step back, it wouldn't matter much if I'd chosen the 16gb. Because the shortage in memory goes way into the 20s to 50s (I can see that on the monitor too) on memory swap with my (internal) SSD. Not just so when editing, but also in 'simply browsing' through your Folders or Albums. Also, CPU usage is huge and temperature rising fast.
But the strange thing is, if you wouldn't see that monitor results, you wouldn't know that ON1 takes a huge toll: the performance on the M1 when editing is amazing so far. It's those (maybe I underestimate it) seemingly 'simple tasks' like browsing and adding/deleting ' virtual' versions from Albums that makes it crash--the usage of Memory seems so much relative to the task. That is why I tried to lower the preview quality, but with no results.
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Just did some more testing. Same problem again, but now ON1 stays way within the 8Gb, even with other apps open too. No disk swapping. Editing fast, no problems. Using keyword to create Album, no problem. Removing pictures from Albums, no problem...until the third time, then crash.
Send Support my Mac crash report too.
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Hey Jaap, I also have issues since the last 2 updates.
Almost the same setup except I have a USB external SSD and the 16 gb model.
I have not being able to narrow it down why, but it happens with my newer photo's only and in catalogued folders. If I just go through files on the disk and not in de catalogued folders, all is fine.
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Hi Brian,
Hoped that the latest update would solve the above problem. Wiped the former installation, did a new one.
But, no. Crash within only a couple of changes within Albums.
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I'm still not having the kind of problems that you are Jaap. The only crash I've had was when I was explicitly trying to reproduce your issue. In my day-to-day use I do not see it.
What happens if you move a small set of folders to your internal SSD then Catalog it (I would put them all inside one test folder) and add them to a new test Album. Does the crashing still happen if you work only from there? That would point to some kind of hardware issue—cables, enclosure, or possibly the drive itself, some work better than others.
I used to have a problem where Photo RAW on my old MacBook Pro would spontaneously eject my Scratch SDD right after connecting to it. It happened randomly also, mostly during the first launch of the program for that day. Launch, crash, relaunch and all is OK until some time in the future. I have not seen it happen again since I've moved to the M1 which forced me to recable that drive.
Also, in reviewing this thread and the crash log you posted in particular I saw several entries where the program was trying to fix some kind of naming issue with some .psd files.
[ 88323] 2021-05-10 15:28:26 ON1 - ONNDReconciler[INFO] Fixing mis-named file from /Volumes/FOTODISK/MIJN FOTOS/vakanties en tripjes/amerika - 2009/07. LA to LV/On the Road 07.psd to "On The Road 07.psd".
Is that still happening? Are any of those files in the Albums you are working with?
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Hi Brian,
On the mis-named files in the error file: saw that too and removed them from the directory. Since then, there is no mention of them any longer in the error file.
Good tip to try it on/from internal SSD. But the problem remains the same. It only takes two or three additions to or removals from the Album to make the application crash.
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It sucks it's still happening on the internal drive but now we know the external isn't the problem.
One last idea, can you run the program when booted in Safe Mode (hold a Shift key during the computer startup)? If so is the problem still there? That would point to some kind of incompatibility with a 3rd party extension.
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First tried with shutting down and rebooting the normal way. I hardly ever shut down my machine so I figured maybe if there's some hiccup with something in cash/memory that will perhaps be resolved. But, no.
Then tried the above way in Safe Mode, with pictures on internal SSD and an Album pointing to only those pics. So no reference to external SSD, and the external SSD not even attached.
Problem remains the same.
I then tried on my former MacBook Pro (Intel based) with latest MacOS. Same problem.
I finally tried on my old and true iMac. Late 2012 model with Catalina and 1Tb SSD. Still going strong and working great with ON1. Except for the exact same problem.
So it seems it is not related to hardware (Intel, nor M1, nor external or internal SSD, cables and what have you) nor to OS (problems on Catalina as well on Big Sur).
And, it all started with the 15.5 version. Previous ON1 versions never gave this problem.
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Jaap, I don't know what to tell you. I have 34 Albums. I run an M1 Mini. I am constantly adding new photos to the albums and removing old photos from them and I do not have the crashing problems you are experiencing.
Did you reset the program before doing the Safe Mode test? If not and the program's settings files have become corrupt enough to cause the crashes it wasn't a valid test.
Other than that you're going to have to work this out with support. I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
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No no. No worries: you've been more than helpful.
Yes, I completely cleaned all the machines--even 'deep cleaned' it in a way that there was no file with ON1 in its name was left (even erased the instruction manuals by accident ;-)
So that remains one question. How to best involve support? Do they follow this communication between you and me? I just want to make sure that they do not have to waste their valuable time by asking me to do things that you and I have already covered--or my time bij explaining things all over again.
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