NoNoise - is ON1 afraid or is it just poor planning
Answered
Re: the NoNoise release.
Is ON1 afraid of the competition or just guilty of poor planning?
A mailer went out offering a $30 pre-order discount for ON1 NoNoise. However, the discount expired before the NoNoise release. This meant that a person who wanted to compare ON1's NoNoise to Topaz's DeNoise AI before purchasing ON1's NoNoise could not do so with the discount.
Was this done intentionally because ON1 NoNoise is no better than Topaz's Denoise AI and ON1 was afraid to offer a discount after the apps could be compared or was this just poor organizational planning on ON1's part?
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You can still get the NoNoise AI plug-in at a discounted price. Please note where it says,"*Limited time offer – subject to change without notice". https://www.on1.com/products/nonoise-ai/buy/
Pre-release pricing always expires before the release. It's right there in the name Pre.
I'm not sure I understand the intent of asking other users about ON1's internal decision making. We don't have any idea on how they do that and I seriously doubt they are "afraid" of anyone.
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the current discount is $20, not $30. enough said about that.
In ON1's advertising they say NoNoise is the best denoising product on the market. If they were truly confident of that statement, they would offer the $30 discount after the DeNoise release, and after people had time to compare it to other denoise methods. They don't, and have not indicated they will do so. Hence, the discounts are offered only if a user blindly purchases the app without the ability to compare it.
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"[T]he current discount is $20, not $30." *Limited time offer – subject to change without notice You snooze, you loose. This is common practice in the software industry—offer a prerelease discount that expires before the release of the software. Excluding special offers after release who else lets users purchase the software at the discount price once the program has been released?
All ON1's software comes with a 14 day trial period and a 30 day money back guarantee. You can test and compare to your heart's content and if you don't like it it won't cost you a cent.
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Brian,
You edited your comment and took out the links.
In your original post you said (before editing it out):
"There are several videos on this site as well as YouTube that show how the program works."
WORKS not compares.
Please provide a link showing an independent comparison of ON1 NoNoise with Topaz DeNoise AI or any other known good denoise product.
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The links I removed were meant for a different post and were all about the Mobile App and Cloud Sync service. That comment was also meant for the other post. I missed removing it. Sorry for the confusion.
Since the program has not been released there are no videos comparing it with other software. That will come after when 3rd party reviewers start posting about it. I've never seen comparisons between unreleased programs and their competitors before. At least not authorized comparisons. Kind of an unrealistic expectation.
The bottom line is complaining about it here isn't going to buy you anything. We don't have the ability to do anything about it. You should be directing your comments and complaints to Customer Service, not other users who have nothing to do with what has made you angry.
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Exactly. No comparisons, only offers to blindly purchase a product with a discount not knowing how it performs or compares, only basing one's purchase decision on Marketing Department advertising hype.
I HAVE made comments to ON1 senior management.
I am not complaining nor angry. I am only trying to educate potential users that blindly purchasing a product based on company-created advertising hype, without any demonstration or proof whatsoever on how well it compares to other competing products brings up a trusted old adage: "buyer beware."
Thank you for a lively conversation. I have been an ON1 user for years but never really participated in these forums. I think I will now and look forward to making comments on your posts.
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Again, as you know the products come with a money back guarantee. You could have paid for the early adopter's pre-release price then done all your testing and comparison once it had been released. If you don't like it or think it doesn't live up to the hype simply return it and get your refund. What have you lost?
I have to say the video showing how it works is pretty impressive. My personal feeling is that because NoNoise AI is doing the noise removal prior to the demosaicing and Topaz comes after they will be complementary products and one isn't going to replace the other.
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I have no wish to muddy the waters further, but if previous releases are anything to go by, On1 will offer a 14 or 30 day trial. This was certainly the case with Portrait AI when it was released about a year ago, and I took advantage of the trial knowing full well that I was not going to buy it. The reason being that it was going to be incorporated into Photo Raw 2021.
I will do the same for NoNoise and use the trail period to compare it with Topaz Denoise and DxO. I have been a user of DeNoise for some time, but I currently have a trial of DxO and am mightily impressed (see other post showing direct comparison). Throwing NoNoise into the mix will be fun. It will al influence my decision to upgrade to Photo Raw 2022 this autumn.
By the way, I do watch the reviews on YouTube and sometimes take them with a pinch of salt. They often do their tests on "easy" images.
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No I am going to regret saying this but Hey Ho.
Been a user of On1 products over the years, not 100% as in the beginning had a lot of problems with there software just freezing up but lately trying to get to grips with so I can do away with Lightroom 6. However the reason I say how long I have been an On1 user is the Emails!! a constant barrage of them, every week they seem to arrive in my in box and ALL about how to purchase NoNoise at a discount price. As a user of the On1 photo Raw software and the fact that NoNoise looks like it will be incorporated with the next new release of On1 Raw why would I buy it?
Russ.
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Russell, I have to say I haven't had a single email from them. I probably opted (it's usually easy to do) out
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Yea, I get a ton of marketing spam from ON1 too. But I'm always afraid to opt out because I might not get news about product updates, etc.
Why pay for it now? Pure speculation, but I would guess inclusion of the NoNoise feature into the ON1 Photo Raw product would drive the price up.
Yep, heard a lot about the DXO de-noise product, too. Some are calling it the best that's ever been. But as I understand it, it also has some limitations, too. Don't know much about it - never tried it. But I don't do business with DXO. Their terribly inflated price of the old NIK plugins has left a bad taste in my mouth.
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Be sure to vote in the online survey for how you want the NoNoise balance between crisp and clean vs some noise left in according to a preferences setting.
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I did that survey several days ago. The product is meant to be available in the second half of June and today is the 28th! Does anyone know if the product actually will be released in June? They're sure pushing it.
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June has 2 more days so they have time before it is "late". Do you want it fast or do you want it right? I'm willing to wait until it is right.
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I am not asking for it "fast", I want it "on-time", the time it was promised when I handed over my money. I have noticed you seem to defend On1 to the death in all your posts. It is quite amusing. I am just dying to try it out as the video showing how it works looks fantastic. People can be excited. :-)
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You were promised by the end of June, that is 3 days from now but you're complaining that you don't have it yet. If it was July 1 and you still don't have it then I would say you have room to complain, barely.
As for my defense, it's just that I know what follows, every single time. It's full of bugs! Why did they release this so soon? Have you ever been involved with software development? I spent my life doing it. There are no guarantees.
I figure they are getting close if they are arguing over the final details like default settings and asking users for their opinions. I'll bet if it isn't released on Monday, it will be on Tuesday. Just a personal opinion, I don't have any inside information to go on.
Peace. :)
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PS I'm excited to see it too. I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do in comparison with the other products I use.
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I've been lucky with software over the years. I remember when every new version of CorelDRAW Graphics Suite had dozens of people complaining, yet I never had an issue. I have only had one issue with On1 Photo Raw, when in one version it would not read one of my camera's raw files. That was fixed and I have never had an issue since. On1 products have never frozen or crashed on me, so I am very impressed so far. I definitely agree with you that it is better to get the product right, rather than simply get it out by a certain date.
Have a good day, Brian.0 -
The clock is ticking. Today or tomorrow?
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How about 6 July. They've pushed the release date back to take into account the feedback they got from the survey posted the other day.
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Last week we sent a survey to all who pre-ordered NoNoise. Mmm no I received the survey but not ordered yet also survey on On1 site, just say "the software will be released late due to errors"
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There is a big difference between fixing "errors" and fine tuning the operation to take into account the feedback they received from the users who participated in the survey. It's not just a matter of rewriting a few lines of code. They have to retrain the AI to take into account the new preferences and that takes time. When I was taking my AI class, the programs to train the AIs we wrote took a couple of days to run before we could start testing them.
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One thing is for definite, ON1 has taken notice of the results of the survey. Which fits well with ON1's established way of operating. i.e., they do listen to and they do take notice of their customers comments.
Personally, I'd prefer that they took their time and got it right.
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If you saw Hudson Henry's latest video, which was his first looking in depth at NoNoise AI, I'd say that ON1 are very likely to have caught up with Topaz and DXO, and perhaps even to have leapfrogged them.
For sure ON1's product will be different from the Rivals, and in terms of which is or is not the best, it is likely to be all down to personal likes and dislikes.
I think that it is far too early to start any rumours about the possible retail price of Photo Raw 2022. As ON1 still have to launch the various dot versions of Photo Raw 2021, such as the version that will run on Apple's M1 chips. But, ON1's competitors have been inching their prices upwards, so maybe ON1 will be tempted to charge the market value? But, I suspect that they will stick with their winning formula. i.e. as far as I can recall, the price in dollars has remained the same. It is the continual decline/slump in the value of the Brexit Pound, that has forced me to feel as though I am paying more.
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Dave, to me it does seem that On1 believe they have a winner but would you go and buy a new TV without first seeing it working at the shop face to face so to speak? I messaged On1 via Twitter 2 days ago asking "As an On1 PR 2021 user I am trying to find out if I Pre buy NoNoise what advantage/s is there over waiting to upgrade to PR 2022 with/if NN is going to be included?" still await a reply. Russ.
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Hi Russell
I suspect that there can be no broad brush answer to that question. ON1 has three main products: Photo Raw; Plus; and Standalones.
They can't launch NoNoise AI as part of a free upgrade to Photo Raw. After all they must have invested in developing NoNoise AI, and they will have to recover the money that they have already spent. They can't just give NoNoise AI away, for free.
The standalones can be launched at almost any time of year. So, by launching the standalone now, ON1 gets some income, as well as the chance to thing more deeply about how to integrate NoNoise AI into the new version of Photo Raw.
In terms of money, there is little reason for me to buy the standalone, when six months down the line I will get it built into the new version of Photo Raw. As a Photo Raw User, buying the standalone looks like a waste of my money. But, as a micro 4/3rds User, I will greatly benefit for NoNoise AI, if it allows me to work at a higher ISO. And with micro 4/3rds a high ISO is 1600 and above.
So I have made the judgement that £ 46 is affordable, when balanced against the likely benefit. This is a personal decision, and we all have different kit, and different needs. We will all have to make our own decisions.
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Russell, the only real benefit is that purchasing the software now means that you get to put it to use now. It is unlikely they will give a price break on the 2022 upgrade for people who purchase the plug-in. If you want a definitive answer I suggest using the Submit a request link and contact Customer Service. They do like to make their customers happy so you never know but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a price break.
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David: where will I find the Hudson Henry video? I don't see it on YouTube.
I have been using Topaz DeNoise for quite a while, but it still produces colour blotches on low-light high ISO images. My trial of DxO indicates it does much better. If NoNoise can come up with something acceptable for such contingencies, I'll be very happy:
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It's on the main ON1.com site under the training videos. It say's it's for Plus members but they unlocked it yesterday so everyone can see it.
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I watched the video. He only selected wildlife shots. In none of his images was there the degree of colour noise that I get when I shoot church interiors etc. I look forward to trialling it myself next week!
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