NoNoise Problems (Many....)
I pre-purchased NoNoise and have been testing it this week on a couple of my "noisy" images. My first experience (outputting to a jpeg) looked very good. But since then, it has crashed to the desktop twice, the export dialogs sometimes freeze and become non-responsive (though NoNoise still shows CPU activity), and when I try to process with jpeg, dng and tiff outputs only the dng file looks good - the jpeg and tiff files are so dark they are unusable. It feels like a beta. In the output dialog it shows "estimated space needed" and a value but then also says "Not Available" - when there is plenty of space available. These issues are reproducible on my iMac Pro and my MBP16 systems, both running Big Sur (with all updates applied). In its current state it is not usable. It really needs updates and fixes.
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The Not Available means the number is not available, not that there is no space available.
You should contact On1 Support about these problems. Include the info in this article with your description.
How to submit a problem to ON1 Tech Support - A Step-by-step Guide – ON1 Support (zendesk.com)
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But it gives me a space number - then says there is no space available!
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It isn't telling you that there is no space available. According to the User Guide (pgs 31-32) when you are exporting to a .dng those features are not available for that file format. The User Guide is your friend! 😎
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Well, this is what I see when exporting a dng file. In the destination menu it says the estimated space needed is 14MB (not available). In the file type section it says the dng estimated file size is 14MB. Not available for dng output? Seems like it is. At the very least this is poor interface design. (And I don't really care about estimated file size - don't know why it is included.)
David
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As I said, that number has absolutely nothing to do with the programs ability to save the file as you already know. What it is telling is that the 14MB file size is garbage. When you export a .dng it does not give you an accurate size estimate. Read the manual. We all see the exact same thing.
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Why does it give a file size if it is "garbage"? Bad interface design.
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I'll agree with that. It would be better if there was no size, just the Not Available message would get rid of the confusion factor.
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The manual actually says you can’t _resize_ dng files but I wasn’t trying to resize - just output the dng file. This whole output dialogue doesn’t work well. I have been trying, without success, to output jpg, tiff, and dng versions at the same time. I create presets and save them but when I come back they are changed. Very frustrating.
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I agree, I find the new Export module difficult to navigate. I can see there are a lot more useful options now, but it's really difficult to get it to work the way you want.
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I found it confusing at first too. I kept trying to use both sides of the panel at the same time and that led to confusion and bad results.
The left side of the panel is like a batch processing control. It allows you to not only save different exporting options it also allows you to select more than one of them at the same time even though they have radio buttons that normally say only one choice is allowed. Another poor UI design choice. This is what got me at first—because you can make multiple selections on the left, you do not see any changes to the export options on the right.
The right side is a totally manual set of controls which can by used in conjunction with the presets from the left. You can select a preset AND set the manual controls which will result in multiple exports.
I've also found that when multiple exports are performed there can be horrible color casts applied to some of them. In the screenshot below I ran NNAI as a stand-alone program and Opened the .cr2 file from within the program. I used the default settings and clicked Apply to unlock the Export button. In Export I chose the DNG to Same Folder and TIFF to Same Folder Presets. You can see the results. There isn't any color cast when I export to TIFF by itself. It has been reported.
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Thanks for the explanation of why the right side settings don't change when you (single click) on a preset on the left. You have to double (or right) click to get the settings to match the preset. Really confusing, There are two save options - one at the bottom of the preset panel that only allows you to save a new preset - you can't modify a preset and save it with this save button. On the right naming panel there is a drop down menu that lets you save and update. I don't really understand completely how these two options interact and it seems to me you should only have one save function that supports save and update.
I have run into the issue where if you try to apply more than one preset at least one of the output files will be horribly underexposed and unusable. And, in my experience, it is not always the TIFF file - I have seen it happen to dng and jpg files too. A variation on this issue was when I was trying to see the effects of different jpg compression levels. I created three jpg presets - one a 90, one at 95 and one at 100 (no compression). When I ran the export it only exported one file - not three. (I have been comparing ON1 NoNoise to DxO, Pixelmator Pro, COP21 and Raw Power - and On1NN creates significantly smaller output files for jpg, dng and tiff files - I don't know why. All the other packages are very similar in output file size.)
This is all a shame because the actual noise reduction algorithm works pretty well (still not as good as DxO Deep Prime, in my opinion, because I see color changes and edge sharpening problems). The software was released too early I think - my original comment was that it feels like a beta.
I will report these issues to support and hope for fixes.
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David: I too think DxO has the best denoising algorithms. Elsewhere, I think I posted examples of what I call colour bleed that results when there is very high colour noise.
I think NoNoise does as good a job almost as Topaz DeNoise, which has been around for years. I haven't encountered any of the issues you have, as I have not been attempting to save all over the place.
With regard to output size (DNGs), NoNoise and DxO are about the same, but DeNoise files are almost twice the size. I have been using a trial of Prime to replace all my DeNoised files and have saved a huge amount of space. I hope NoNoise catches up soon, otherwise I might be forced to buy the DxO product! (I am a beta tester for Topaz)
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The Preset button on the lower Left is for saving Export presets which contain all of the options. On the Right, there are some panels (Name, Watermark) that also save presets but only for their own settings.
As far as I'm concerned, the Main Preset Button (Left) is incomplete since you can't update an existing Preset. Now, to do that you have to rename the existing Preset and create a new one with the same name.
Has anyone noticed that you can't import a watermark image? It always wants to import a preset. Reported to Support.
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The Save command in the drop-down menu in the right side panel only saves Naming presets. It does not save output options. The Save button on the left creates a new Preset with all options, including any Naming preset you've chosen.
Also, it isn't necessary to double-click the left side Preset to see its settings. Just clicking the radio button will not do it but a single click inside that preset panel will populate the right side panel.
"I created three jpg presets - one a 90, one at 95 and one at 100 (no compression). When I ran the export it only exported one file - not three." I'm not sure what you've done here. There is no way I know of to save a preset with the Noise Reduction settings. The Presets in the Export panel have nothing to do with the noise reduction settings you've chosen.
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There is a slider that can be used to adjust the compression level. You can't save this setting to a preset? As you say, that seems to be the case - no matter what I set it to, it reverts to 90 for the presets. This is only for the "manual" (no preset) settings? This is a setting that makes a difference - the On1 No Noise default seems to "90" when all the other software packages I use default to "95". This is something that should be included in jpg presets.
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That looks like a bug to me. The compression setting should be saved with the Export Preset. I just tried it and my Export presets don't correct the value if I change it manually.
I'll report that.
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That is the jpeg compression. I thought you were talking about the sliders that control the noise removal. Sorry, my bad.
That could be a bug. I'm not seeing it get saved either. It always retains the previous setting regardless of which Preset I choose. I'm going to report it.
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I deleted all my presets and (working only on the right side to define a dng output) I managed to get it to output the processed images. I have been comparing ON1NN to DxO Deep Prime and I have two "noisy" images - one a Canon cr2 raw (from an old Digital Rebel XTi camera) shot at ISO 1600 and the other from my Sony A7RM4 camera shot at ISO 6400 (at night). The Canon image looked better in ON1NN; the Sony image looked better with DxO Deep Prime. Not surprisingly, which is "best" depends on the image. I don't know if the difference is in the camera raw formats, the ISO values or the actual images themselves. I am going to look for some additional images to test. (I shoot ISO100 most of the time with the Sony A7RM4 - no noise that needs to be corrected. But, I do like to take shots of night parades we have here in the fall and winter. I bought a Sony 50mm f1.2 lens to try but I will still need to boost ISO.)
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There is quite a long thread comparing DeNoise and NoNoise over on the Topaz forums
https://community.topazlabs.com/t/on1-nonoise-ai-comments-and-comparison/25454/28
I have given my views there and I posted quite a lot of images, as did others. On a trip to Guatemala two years ago for Semana Santa I had to shoot sometimes at very high ISO in lowlight if I wanted to get decent hand-held shots of the processions etc. This one wasn't at night, but for some reason I shot it at a high ISO. As you see, only the DxO version retained the texture of the black fabric and also did a good job with the colour noise on the baby's face. The NoNoise version still has a lot of noise in it, but the black is truer than in the DeNoise.
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