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Sky swap .. not

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24 comments

  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Take a look at the mask created by the Sky Swap AI. Press the O key to see it or click on the preview to expose the masking controls. You may be able to fix it with the sliders or just manually paint in the mask as needed.

    It wasn't really meant for a photo like this. I'm betting the AI was primarily trained with photos that have an actual horizon.

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  • Bill Posner

    Interesting, so the plugin is Landscape Sky Swap, not Sky Swap?  lol. I appreciate that I can fix it, kinda defeats the purpose, maybe if it's truly AI after I load a bunch of bird images it will learn?   As. I mentioned, PS did it correctly too. Thanks again, Brian for your reply.

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    The AI the program uses to create the mask has to be trained before it can be put to use. It isn't built to learn from what it works on. They're two separate processes. A self-learning AI — that's a whole other level of AI. 😉

    Fixing it is why the controls are there in the first place. Different people are going to want to use it in different ways and different images will require different blending etc. Blending is where your problem is coming in. It should be pretty easy to limit the mask to just the bird. You might try different blending options.

    I was working on a photo yesterday where I wanted to separate the sky from the ground. I didn't want to swap them, just have masks for them. I tried Sky Swap with its controls and the Mask Sky command which has not controls but I'm sure uses the same AI with default settings (my opinion). I couldn't get a mask I liked. I tried a Luminosity Mask and had what I needed in seconds.

    Another option which would work well for this image is the AI Mask tool. That way you can tell the program to protect all areas of the bird whereas the AI is identifying similar tones to be included in the map. Tonally the bird isn't much different than the sky.

    Or, use Luminar. Use which ever tool works best for each image. I'd try the AI Mask tool.

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  • Bill Posner

    Thanks Brian. I remember many versions ago, what got me into On1 more deeply was the way the perfect brush worked. Put to layers together, the main image and the sky and then just paint and refine with the perfect brush. At the time nobody had such a simple solution.  It was very good, even with trees and branches.  Appreciate the info.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I still use the Perfect Brush to refine my mask edges. I'm finding less need for that with the new tools but I haven't tried an image like yours. Maybe I'll give it a try on some of my Blue Angels (doubtful it will work—blue planes against a blue sky, tough!) and Thunderbirds pics. I expect the T-birds paint job to be problematic too with the red, white, and blue strips.

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  • David Kick

    I tried sky swap with a hot air balloon and a bit of horizon. It got the horizon OK but the balloon in the sky was a fail. Pretty similar to the Pelican in the OP.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I'd be willing to bet the AI was trained with photos containing horizons and it's going to fail on any photo without one. After all, there is a Shift Horizon slider. 😁

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  • David Kick

    Brian, I think you are correct. I would imagine On1 will improve this module in the future.

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  • Dieter Lauer

    Hello all,
    I wanted to swap a sky in the latest version 2022 using the sky swap function, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work. After I have loaded the picture, I press sky swap, but nothing happens, that is, the programme menu does not pop up. What am I doing wrong?
    NB: I have tried several pictures with different skies.
    Thanks for the answers in advance!

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    You won't see any difference after just clicking the button for the Sky Swap module. All it does at first is create the mask to separate the sky from the ground.

    After the mask has been created you need to pick one of the skies from the Category & Sky menus.

    You might find these videos helpful.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXD9IXzabSI

    ON1 Photo RAW 2022 Quick Start Course

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  • Dieter Lauer

    Thank you Brian for your quick answer.

    I'm sorry, but I was probably too imprecise with my description. I didn't mean the result in the picture itself, but when I load the picture, I can see the categories "Develop" in the layers and press this button and then the menu "Tone & Colours" opens below and I can edit the picture accordingly and so on.
    Then comes the button "Effects" - and if you press this, then "Add Filters" appears.
    But when I press the "Sky" button, nothing appears, i.e. the submenu with "Sky Swap AI" and the selection categories "Night", "Storm", "Clouds", "Sunset", "More" and the other sliders do not open at all, it just stays black.
    Maybe I could make myself a bit clearer now, because I don't know the technical terminology very well.
    I hope that I am not trying your patience too much and that the problem could be solved.

    Kind regards

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Ah, I see now. This is where screenshots come in handy. A picture is worth a thousand words, right? 😉

    What happens if you go to Sky first? There is another user who has found the same issue when he applies certain Presets before using it but everything works when it is used first.

    I don't understand fully what is going on yet and I had to refer him, and now you, to tech support, sorry.

    Here is the link if you want to see that other discussion. I knew I had covered this material earlier with someone but I couldn't find the link for you. 😁

    https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/4410118923149

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  • Dieter Lauer

    Yes, screenshots are better for illustration than verbal descriptions.
    Well, here are the first 3 screenshots (at the bottom).

    As I said, all layers work and load except for "Sky" and you only see a "black box".
    I also noticed that the software often crashes. Could this be due to the fact that I have version 2021 on my PC at the same time?

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Which Effect did you add?

    Did you try going directly to Sky after getting the photo open in the Editor?

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I forgot to answer your question. Having 2021 on you system at the same time does not cause any problems.

    What kind of computer are you running? What are its system specs?

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  • David Price

    For a first attempt, Sky Swap is pretty impressive.  It can get close to a good enough result, straight off the bat, with next to no fiddling.  Where it falls down is where we go in closer and look more critically at the image.

    Close to the edges of buildings, trees, etc, it blends/fades the new sky into the old sky. so it seems to work best if the old and new sky have similar colours, and lumiance.  Other wise you see a sort of glow around trees and buildings.  The trees aren't so bad and can be very difficult to spot, but the glow around buildings can look very fake.

    The mask can be readjusted, but on a lower powered laptop like mine, this risks crashing PR.  (My laptop does not meet ON1's minimum spec, and yet PR 2022 mostly works just fine).

    I am confident that ON1 will be able to further  strengthen Sky Swap's performance.  Perhaps teaching the programme to recognise and to mask tightly around hard edged things?

    All in all very impressive, especially with the reflections and colour matching of the foreground.

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  • Dieter Lauer

    Hello Brian,
    Sorry for interrupting the conversation, but due to the time difference I had to go to bed.

    To the first question, yes - I immediately added "SKY" to the picture, and did so several times, unfortunately without success. When this didn't work, I edited the picture with "Develop" and "Effects" to continue with "SKY" afterwards, but the submenu didn't load.

    On the second question - the specifications of my PC:
    Operating system: Windows 10
    Processor: Intel i7
    RAM: 16 GB
    Display: Video card 2 GB
    Hard disk: 8 TB
    But that's not the reason, because I have several image editing software like Lightroom, Aurora, Paintshop Pro, HDR Projects, Luminar 4, Luminar AI, which use much more the resources of RAM, HDD and video card than ON1 Photo RAW 2022 according to the task manager of Windows 10.

    I also uninstalled the software and reinstalled it again, but to no avail.

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    The support has confirmed that the engineers have found a bug where applying a Preset with the Develop section turned off will break the Sky Swap feature and display exactly what you are seeing—no controls.

    Does your video card support Open GL 4.2? Be sure you have the lasted drivers from the manufacturer and they are configured properly. It has also been found that some users with integrated GPUs don't have enough power to make use of this feature.

    None of those other programs process their images the same way Photo RAW does. It is an invalid comparison.

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  • Dieter Lauer

    These are the specs of my software drivers with OpenGL version 6.14 if I am not wrong (screenshot (at the bottom).

    You are right when you mention that the editing of ON1 does not compare with the other programmes. But the load on the system resources of ON1 is much lower than that of the other software mentioned. Hence the conclusion that the video card might still have enough resources for sky editing.
    I modified the recommended settings for the video card and included ON1, but without effect. Maybe the only thing left to do is to change to another video card.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    You might want to talk with support before making that decision Dieter. I'm more of a Mac guy and I don't keep up with all the variations of graphics cards in the Windows world. They will be able to tell you better than I if your card has enough horsepower.

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  • David Kick

    Dieter, in my opinion a video card with only 2GB ram is pretty underpowered for ON1. I know the recommend spec is 2+ GB but I think they are being pretty generous with that 2GB number. That said, given the current prices of video cards, I agree with Brian check with support before you make that jump.

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  • Adam Rubinstein

    As Bill observed, it's really landscape sky swap AI and it really does a fairly good job for that the majority of the time.  It's awful for any other application including cities or any object where there isn't a landscape horizon.  Bummer.

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  • Dieter Lauer

    Hello Brian and David,
    I just wanted to give you a quick feedback.I have installed a new video card with 4 GB RAM in the PC (my own decision) and it works! - and you were really right about the specs of the video card, I really wasn't expecting that, but thought, based on the minimum requirements, that my built-in components would be sufficient.
    Thanks again for your quick responses and commitment!
    Many regards

     

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  • David Kick

    Glad it's working better Dieter. I hope you found a card that didn't break the bank, they are crazy expensive right now.

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