Local adjustments in NoNoise AI no possible in Photo Raw 2022?
One of the major advantages of NNAI as standalone module over the competition is the possibility to do local adjustments. As it was stated that NNAI would be integrated in PR 2022 I expected that local adjustments would be possible there as well, but I only see it under the development tab. I expected it being part of the Noise effects.
Is it my misunderstanding, or is it yet to come, or.....?
It is a misunderstanding. NoNoise AI and Local Adjustments are both separate modules within the program. The same for Sky, Portrait AI, Effects, HDR, and Panorama. You can think of them as individual programs within Photo RAW that are being called as needed.
Your NNAI adjustments will be applied before any other processing is done including the lens correction. This is why the image can jump around as you move the Split View slider back and forth. You will not see any edits that have been made while you are working in NNAI.
If you want to apply sharpening selectively you should Duplicate the Layer, use NNAI on the top Layer, then you can mask it out (in the Layer mask) where you don't want it applied.0
I don’t use duplicate layer that often, but I’ll give it a try.
Thanks for your help, much appreciated.
Thanks Brian and Martin - I was about to ask this same question as I was under the impression that NoNoise would be a maskable filter rather than a tab in Develop. Duplicating layers is an option at the expense of ballooning the file size. Has it been stated whether moving NoNoise to a maskable filter is on the roadmap or not? If not, I will post an enhancement request.
Really having fun so far with 2022!
I don't know what the plans are in that area, sorry. The only road map they've laid out was in a recent Blog post.
“As I’ve said before it’s going to be a great year for ON1 Photo RAW customers. Our development team is already busy working on another significant update to ON1 Photo RAW 2022 which will be a free update for owners. This will include a new integrated AI-powered ON1 Resize, a Liquify Tool, much improved searching and filtering capabilities in the Browse module, content-aware cropping and filling, and enhancements to ON1 Photo RAW for mobile,” says Craig Keudell, President of ON1.0
The best performance from NoNoise comes from working on a RAW file where it acts as part of the process of creating a full colour image from the information in the RAW data.
The integration into 2022 makes this part of creating the base image on which all the other adjustments are built (see p68 of User Guide). Since each layer can only have one base image, so no way to do masking on a single layer.
My tests suggest that NoNoise has some way to go in refining the model it uses when applied to images that are already in full colour, for example on top of base layer or when editing Tiff or JPG files. Perhaps this will be improved in due course and the Local Adjustments and DeNoise filters upgraded to use AI noise reduction.
This mode of working is not that much different from the way that the standalone version works, masking in different levels of noise reduction also requires creating new layers. And the output from the standalone/plugin version is some form of full colour file such as DNG or Tiff which will always be much larger than the original RAW.0
NNAI uses different AI models for removing the noise from a RAW file vs an image file. It cannot do as good a job on the image files for the reasons you explained about where the processing gets done.0
Agreed, but at the moment I don't think it does as good a job on image file as DeNoise does, removes too much detail along with the noise. So there is room for improvement on the image file AI model.0
More training for the AI engine is the solution for that and it takes time. When I took a class on creating AIs last year the assignments where we had to train an AI then put it to use to solve image related problems took 2 weeks as the training program could run for 4 or 5 days before it finished its work creating the engine. And that was just a homework assignment!
It's an interesting topic.0
Would be nice to have an option to crop layer to mask only area after finishing editing to decrease file size. I could apply selective NNAI in many places and selective sharpening and when I'm sure that finished editing, I could just select from right mouse click menu something like "crop layer to mask area" and additional image layer could be removed from file.
If would be a need to change settings for NNAI or sharpening I could do that (only incresing area of image isn't possible but is easy to copy adjustment settings and create new layer from base image layer).0
Decreasing the file size would be a destructive edit and that isn't going to happen. Part of ON1's design philosophy for Photo RAW was a completely non-destructive workflow. Your original files are never touched.
If you want an image file that contains only the cropped portion you have to export it.0
I'm not talking about cropping original file but only about cropping unused part of masked layers with nonoise or sharpening applied. With this I'm not destructive anything, each settings of my nonoise / sharpening layers are editable, I'm only cut off part of layer which isn't visible because is masked and it was my intention to use this "crop layer to mask area" functionality.
For example, when I have photos where applied 10 different settings for NoNoise for selected 10 areas using duplicate layer and masking each areas, I have 10 full sized layers with different NoNoise settings but only few percent of each layer are visible because rest is masked by me.
It would be nice to have POSSIBILITY to cut off these masked areas to decrease file size. When I merge each layers to one, I will lost all my edit settings so then it's destructive (which isn't requested).0
You said, "crop layer to mask only area after finishing editing to decrease file size." You cannot decrease the size of the file without altering it. Cropping the original file is exactly what you are talking about if you want to decrease the size of the file.
The way NNAI works doesn't allow it to be applied to just a portion of the image. It gets applied to the raw sensor data before it is even demosaiced into a viewable image. You can't crop it before it can be seen. 😉 What would happen if you decided after removing the noise that you want to alter the crop or create a new version with a different crop?
If you want to apply NoNoise to different parts of the image you have to do it on new Layers. Duplicate the original file Layer then apply NNAI to the new Layer and mask it out where you don't want it. Repeat for the next section you want with different NNAI settings.0
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