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New update screws up searching

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23 comments

  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Ok, just realised that, in advanced search, [Reset] gets you back, but not when in albums.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    "Double clicking on another keyword executes the PREVIOUS query and also again presents the advanced search dialog."

    I reported that during testing. You can change the search location from Cataloged to All Photos and it will update the search. Or, as you've found, you have to Reset it first.

    I like it but it does take some getting used to.

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Brian, that is a workaround, not a solution. Another issue (for me) is that when you eventually get the results of your query, the dialog remains in your face on the screen. Close the dialog and the search is gone.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I realize that. I did say I reported it as a bug. Right now it is all we've got.

    I also reported the problem with the window remaining open covering the search results we want to look at. You can minimize it, another work around.

    Here is the entire report I sent them with my thoughts on how this is working. Unfortunately, there wasn't much testing time before the update was released so we'll have to wait to see what happens next.

    I’m liking the new search capabilities but it has some rough edges that need to be sanded and polished IMO.
     
    • Double-clicking an entry in the Keyword List leaves the Advanced Search panel open on top of the Search Results. It has to be closed manually which is problematic because…
    • The Advanced Search panel cannot be dismissed via the keyboard. There should be a way to do this without forcing me back to the mouse. Neither the Escape key nor Command/Control-W closes the panel as they should per standard UI design practices. Then when you do close it…
    • Closing the Advanced Search panel so I can see all the results clears the Search Results showing nothing. There needs to be a way to turn this on and off so the entire screen can be seen with all the results. You can’t expect the user to keep moving that panel around to see different parts of the screen. Minimizing it works but that requires use of the mouse to bring the panel back onto the display before it can be closed. Leaving it open also removes the ability to use the keyboard to navigate through the results as the AS panel has keyboard focus.
    • The Advanced Search panel must be closed before a new search can be performed using the Keyword List.
    1. Double-click an entry in the Keyword List to initiate a search. Search for a keyword you’ve used a lot so there will be more than 1 screen of results. This will illustrate the points I’ve made above.
    2. Leaving the AS panel open, double-click a new entry in the Keyword List. A new search should have been performed but nothing happens.
    • This may relate to some of the keyword list maintenance & search issues I’ve previously reported. In the Metadata pane’s Keywords field, hierarchical keywords are shown using the less than symbol. In the Advanced Search panel’s Keywords field, the pipe symbol is used when double-clicking a Keyword List entry. Typing the keyword to search for in the AS panel’s field still uses the less than symbol separator. This is sure to be as confusing for the users as it appears to be for the program itself.
    • From top to bottom: Double-clicked Albums < Finished < Bryce in the Keyword List. 1st is the Advanced Search that is generated. 2nd is the metadata for one of the images that were found. 3rd is the Advanced Search panel when typing in the keyword to search for.Screen Shot 2021-12-18 at 07.59.58.jpg Screen Shot 2021-12-18 at 08.43.53.jpgScreen Shot 2021-12-18 at 08.26.31.jpg
    I’d like to suggest the following:
    1. Add an Enter button to the AS tied to the Return/Enter keys that initiates the search and closes the panel while still leaving the search results visible.
    2. Double-clicking an entry in the Keyword List would work the same as typing in the search and pressing the Return key — the search is performed, results displayed, and the panel is hidden.
    3. Re-implement the Command/Control-L key to toggle the AS panel’s visibility while leaving any current search parameters in place. If no Search Results are currently displayed, this would open an empty panel the same as clicking the tool button does.
    4. Implement Command/Control-W and the Esc key to cancel the search panel and clear the Search Results. At least the Esc key should do this.
    --
    Brian Lawson
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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Good analysis Brian. Will wait for an update (fingers crossed).

    Happy Christmas to you and all Mods.,
    Gerry.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    It seems to me that the A/S panel is waiting for a mouse click to start the search and since it was initiated by double clicking a keyword, there is no mouse click. A work around is to change 'is' to 'contains' which will satisfy the need for the click.

    Brian, you said the panel can be minimised? i don't see that. I can only move it out of the way.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I'm not sure what the window looks like on Windows but here's the widget for MacOS.

     
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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    A work around is to change 'is' to 'contains' which will satisfy the need for the click.

    That has a large potential to change the results of the search.

    Consider the nested keyword list Landscape > Utah. Searching for "is Landscape" will give just those photos which have been tagged with only the keyword Landscape. Searching for "contains Landscape" will return Landscape > Utah and all the photos tagged with any of its children keywords.

    Yes, it does seem to need some sort of user input to initiate the new double-clicked keyword. It shouldn't if the program is going to behave as it has in the past.

    Like most new features in any program there are v1 issues that need to be addressed as the company learns how the users are actually making use of the feature.

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Weather the results change or not depends on what's being searched. In any case, it's easy to click it back. The point is that it's just a good place to trigger the search. I've tried clicking other things and this looks like the easiest option.

    Looks like Windows doesn't have a minimise available for advanced search.

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  • Roger Gough

    I may be missing something here, but I am not finding any need to initiate a search with a mouse click, or enter button, or anything. Every time I enter or change search criteria, the search results are updated automatically as soon as I stop typing (it might take a second or two).

    With regard to the search panel remaining visible, it seems to me that the solution is designed for the user to save the search results as a smart album. Further work on the photos can then be done in the smart album that was created, without the search panel being visible.

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  • Glen Saberton

    Hello again :)

    Relieved you wrote to ON1 Brian about the new way of searching, it was a good summary.

    It's not great at the moment and definitely needs refining. 

    Think i may roll back to the previous version (another first!) till the next iteration.

     

     

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    Roger, if you're setting up a search inside the advanced search box, then you'll have plenty of clicks to start the search. The problem is if you double click a keyword over in the Keyword list. It sets up the search for you, but doesn't initiate on its own. That's where the mouse click is needed.

    Glen, if you roll back you'll be missing out on a lot of other great features. The search problems may be annoying, but it's easy to work around all of them.

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  • Roger Gough

    Thanks for the clarification Rick. I now understand what the problem is. I have found a work-around however. After setting up a search by double-clicking a keyword, single click at the end of the keyword value, key in any single character, then delete the same character and press enter. That initiates the search.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    The new User Guide's section on Advanced Search does address some of the issues I wrote to the company about during testing.

    • You can toggle the visibility of the window with Cmd/Ctl-F but hiding it turns off the Search Results. Minimizing is still the only way for Mac users to hide it and keep the results visible.
    • It is designed to be 'sticky'; i.e.; it retains its settings between uses. This probably plays into why double-clicking an entry in the Keyword List doesn't work without resetting the search parameters first or by making a change, any change, to the window so a new search gets initiated for that keyword.
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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    Brian,

    I am seeing, and reported, much the same issues as you however I am seeing one difference in that if I double click in the keyword list I see the hierarchy separated by < not |.

    (Update - when search field is first populated by double clicking I see the < if I minimise search window and then re-open from the dock then the search field now shows with | as separators. Even stranger.)

    I am suspecting that On1 has problems with keywords if passed with a | separator. In some cases elements end up in On1 as a single keyword with | removed, keywords set in Bridge are one example. I will be trying to put something together as a bug report.

    I think that the actual searching is a big step forward but a few things need to be addressed in the integration into the whole system, double clicking on keywords in list is one, missing menu entries and keyboard short cuts is another. I hope that these are relatively easy to fix and a new build will be out early next year that will address them.

    (This issue of the search before last being displayed reminded me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0C59pI_ypQ though probably only relevant to UK members of a certain age)

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  • Rick Sammartino Community moderator

    I see the CTRL-F shortcut on the File menu now. Interestingly, it only works if the Browser window is active. If I click on the search window to make it active, CTRL-F doesn't work any more.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Photo RAW displays the separator for nested or hierarchical keywords with the less than symbol <. In the .on1 and .xmp sidecar files the pipe character | is used instead.

    I've only seen the pipe character come up twice so far and I haven't quite narrowed down when it appears. I did something that made it happen this morning but I haven't chased it down just yet. It could have been when I typed in the keywords rather than double-clicking in the list.

    I've seen that before but I don't remember when or where. Probably on PBS which shows a lot of BBC programs.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    That could be a Windows thing, Rick. It works for me whether the Browser window or the AS window has been clicked in.

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    Brian - I have just updated my post - if you minimise the search window and then open from dock then the change from < to | happens. If it has changed to | then the technique of deleting the last character to display drop down list doesn't work.

    Really strange.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Using Command-F to toggle the AS window causes it too. Thanks, David.

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  • Owen Slattery

    Thanks for all the work on this - issues well identified and certainly in need of refinement.

     

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    David Tillett

    ROFL, I am from UK, and of a certain age; I remember that interview🤣

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  • Gerald Uhlhaas

    Hi, thank you for the issues regarding useability. I also started to describe this via ticket, but your feedback is already much more detailed. 

    What I have observed in addition is that if you save your search as smart album, its gone when you close and restart the app. Stevie from Support Team could reproduce this and forwarded to developer team.

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