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What is search criterium "keywords" - "is empty"

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13 comments

  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    This is working for me and it is doing exactly what you would expect, finding those photos without any keywords.

    Care to show us a screenshot of your whole window with the Advanced Search search set to find empty keywords and one of the photos selected that it found with any keywords so we can see that photo's Metadata panel too.

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Hi Brian, 

    Thanks for the reply.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    This should probably be sent to tech support, sorry. I'll have to do some more testing to see if I can duplicate your results but so far it is working properly for me.

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Thanks, will do. But first the standard reset......etc.

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Ok, reset (shift when starting) doesn't help so I have opened a ticket. But, the result of resetting the settings is that all the old keywords which I have organised and deleted over the last months are BACK Grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    That needs to be reported as well. I keep hammering on them about deleted keywords that become zombies and rise from the dead when the program has to be reset.

    This article might help with some of it but there are still some that just won't go away. I'm going to do some Unix terminal searching later today to see if I can find where the zombies are living so I can cut their damned heads off. Fixing Keyword Issues

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    My Zombies tend to be where keywords have been applied and embedded in other applications. I suspect some form of format issue that somehow prevents On1 finding them by searching.

    I have been seeing some where something like Processing|Lightroom appears in the keyword box while the keyword list shows ProcessingLightroom with | removed.

    These might be due to setting keywords in Bridge and step by step testing to see if I can narrow it down ready for a bug report.

    I think they reappear when one looks at the folder they are in, in my case they have been in folders I don't often look at. I end up going through folders, doing a Select All to see if any photos have the offending keyword(s), then step through to find the actual ones, remove the keyword using keyword list and then embed metadata. I am clear at the moment!

    The other keyword annoyance is that some educators supply their example files with all their keywords embedded, so that is another lot of images to clean up.

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    I have had the opposite to this where I can see keywords in the info but the photos don't appear in a search on that keyword. I guess if I was to do an empty search the images with these keywords would appear.

    This occurred when I was experimenting with Excire which uses AI to analyse images and assign keywords, it was Tiffs that it had saved keywords for that weren't working in the search. I hit a number of problems with integrating the two applications so I have cleaned things up and will do some controlled testing to see about producing a bug report.

    Gerry did you assign the keywords in On1 or are they on images that were keyworded elsewhere?

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I have had the opposite to this where I can see keywords in the info but the photos don't appear in a search on that keyword. I guess if I was to do an empty search the images with these keywords would appear.

    This is what I've been talking about. If you remove that keyword from the keyword list only it will eventually reappear. That's what I mean by a zombie.

    I've found that a lot of these problems come from mismatches between what's in the database and what is in the sidecar files and possibly the photo for those file types that support embedded keywords. I've also seen differences between what is in the .xmp file and what is in the .on file.

    In my experience, once all the mismatches and differences get cleared up the unwanted zombies will be permanently deleted.

    Tech support has mentioned to me that they've seen problems with keywords that have been edited in other programs but that is all they said, no mention of which programs conflict and which do not.

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    I was seeing images with the keyword in the keywords box when I selected the image but image not getting picked up by search. I had both RAW and Tiff versions of the same image and the contents of the keyword box looked exactly the same but only the RAW version got picked up by the search.

    I did try making a new copy of my test image folder so nothing in the database to begin with.

    I agree that it seems to be some form of mismatch between database, xmp file and embedded data, which is why I want to go back and try some more controlled experiments to see if I can get a pattern.

    I mentioned it because it seemed to match Gerry's problem, something being displayed in keywords box yet image appearing in "is empty" search.

    I agree with all the issues with keywords appearing in the keyword list, but that was not the issue in this case.

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    David,

    I only use ON1 now, but many years ago I also used Lightroom so a few could be from that. But that was donkeys years ago.

    [Edit] We are talking hundreds of photos, not just a handfull.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    I was seeing images with the keyword in the keywords box when I selected the image but image not getting picked up by search. I had both RAW and Tiff versions of the same image and the contents of the keyword box looked exactly the same but only the RAW version got picked up by the search.

    Exactly what I see as well.

    I will also go to the top of my Catalog, the Pictures folder, and turn on Show Subfolder Contents then Select All so I can see what the program thinks is being used and what is not. A lot of the zombies show up with a 0 count and double-clicking them of course does nothing. Delete it and the next time the database gets rebuilt it comes back. I've also found the corrupted metadata can prevent the Embed Metadata command from being available so even if you find the source of the problem you can't fix it with the program.

    This is what I find the most frustrating about all of this. The program finds those keywords somewhere but looses track of where making it difficult to track down the problem files.

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Ok, I am getting there. My keywords are really screwed up; keywords appearing in the metadata but not selected in the keyword list and not searchable. These are all showing up as empty keywords. I am now working through my folders one-by-one, moving them to a different location and back again forcing a re-build in the catalogue. This seems to be working as the number of empties is gradually, reducing - down to just 1800 from > 2000. Doesn't seem to cure the zombies though, but it helps.

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