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Fighting a losing battle

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15 comments

  • Volker Gottwald

    Gerry,

    I face the same issues with keyword search and just reported this to support. I'm using nested keywords like you do. Search used to work perfectly in the earlier version. Now it's all messed up. I confirm your findings: If search fot the higher level the photos are only found if the higher level is existing separately as a keyword.

    The complete search seems to be messed up with the introduction of "Advanced Search". And the handling - mainly the deletion - of keywords is not working as it should.

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    When you double-click an entry in the Keyword List to initiate a search for the photos containing that keyword the Advanced Search is set up to search for an exact match for that keyword. Change the setting to 'Contains' instead of 'Is' and you'll see what you're looking for.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    The program does have problems managing the Keyword List. Especially when the keywords have been assigned through other software. I've found that most of the problems lie with the actual keyword data that is embedded into the .xmp & .on1 sidecar files and possibly even the photos if they are in an pixel image format.

    I wrote up my findings a while back along with the process I came up with to fix the problems I could. You can read it at Fixing Keyword Issues.

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Thanks Brian, it is just that I am so frustrated at the moment what with all the minor and not so minor issues, the worst being that most of my older updates have gone. There is data in the .ON1, but it is not being recognised. Yes, I have tried moving the locations around. I am now looking at alternatives, but none so far has all the editing options of ON1, and as I have been using ON1 since Perfect Effects, I am loath to loose this functionality.

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    If the editing data is in the .on1 sidecars they can be recovered by simply renaming the folder that holds them. I add a 1 to the end of the current name then change it right back. This has worked for me every time. Sometimes they can be recovered by opening the file in the Editor and making some minor change before returning to the Browser. That's time consuming though.

    I'm with you on the frustration. It annoys me to no end that this kind of thing continues to happen and like you, I'm also loath to switch to some other software with the associated cost and learning curve.

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Brian, renaming the folder doesn't work... but, editing the .ON1 by changing a character like the seconds in the time stamp gets the edits back (after a refresh preview). Thanks for the tip. Can I hire you to do this for me for a couple of thousand photos one-for-one;-)

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    LOL. $1 each. 😉

    It's odd that renaming the folder isn't working for you. It was suggested by someone else on another thread here and I've used it ever since.

    Does Windows have a Touch command? You could touch all the .on1 files to update their modified timestamp and that might do it. A little Googling tells me no but I did find this alternative. You just copy the file to itself via the command line.

    copy *.on1+

    The plus sign is what directs the copy back to itself. https://briantjackett.com/2019/04/23/windows-equivalent-of-linux-or-unix-touch-command/

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  • Gerry Whitmarsh

    Brian!!! Brilliant, I was getting project blind. Touching the .ON1 worked:-) Yea! It worked for one image, so I assume it will work for all. 

    Thank you so much for the tip. Now to tackle the keyword issues:-(

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  • Volker Gottwald

    Brian,

    Thanks for the tip of using "contains" when searching. This works.

    Still Advanced Search needs improvements and my keywords are messed up after re-cataloging. Again.

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    Those are 2 separate yet related problems. I'm dealing with the keywords issue too. Keep telling support about the issues you are finding. It's all we can do.

    Is it me or do these problems seem to start with the migration from the previous version?

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  • Volker Gottwald

    It's not you. It's the new version and it's bugs and/or specifications not recognized by QA

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  • Volker Gottwald

    I did tell Ryan from support. I hope it helps. He mostly listens.

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    Just to keep up the pressure I have bug reported issues with quick searching via double clicking on an item in keyword list.

    I agree with Brian that a lot of the issues with zombie keywords stem from keywords generated in other programs, particularly those that are embedded in jpgs, tiffs etc.

    Deleting such keywords does not change the embedded data. I think that the reason that they reappear is that something happens that makes On1 reprocess a folder, for example making a change to a catalogued folder which is being watched by On1 or browsing a non-catalogued folder, or re-cataloging. I see this as a data cleansing issue and not an On1 bug. 

    Then there seem to be some keywords created in other programs that are not in a format that On1 can read correctly and so cannot be searched for. That may be a bug or down to lack of firm standards. The company that produces an AI keywording application, Excire, say the reason they don't export their hierarchy is that there is no standard they can follow. So perhaps On1 is hitting this sort of problem. If I can get a demonstrable example of this then I will bug report it.

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    One of my tips for getting rid of zombies is to be sure to use the Embed Metadata command when you remove one. This insures it won't be found again. One of the problems I have is that one of the files involved is corrupt in some manner that prevents it from being rewritten and the command isn't even available.

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  • David Tillett
    Great answers

    I have had an update to my bug reports about searching 

    - they are working on a fix to the double clicking on a keyword not working

    - the fix will include changing the search parameter to "contains" so that child keywords are returned as they were in previous versions

    - search values not being retained when a search window is minimised and then reopened is accepted as a bug to be fixed

    - they are collecting feedback about the search window. My suggestion was that double clicking on a keyword be treated as a special case of a smart album and search window not displayed, so just get the results of the search as one did before. Also if a search is being displayed either by inputing specific requirements or via smart albums/keyword clicking then clicking on the search icon in the sidebar brings up the search window with the parameters used in that search so can be fine tuned.

    If you have any feedback on things like how the search window operates, gets displayed etc. then I suggest you submit them as bug reports to add to On1's information.

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