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Possible Bug found- Warning! Windows version

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5 comments

  • Steven Kurzrok

    I rechecked my filemanager and realized that Fastone had not preserved the  associated name with .on1 and .onphoto files as I had thought  but just named them sequentially, but the basic issue that the .on1 .xmp and .onphoto files which contain our edits got zeroed out during file moves/renames with the internal file manager remains true and a potential bug.

     

    Steve

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    The edits are stored only in the .on1 files. XMP files hold metadata only and .onphoto files are image files that contain Layers. The name of the .on1 file has to match the name of the image file(s) it is associated with. It can hold edits for more than one type of file. For instance, you start with a raw file let's call it file1. Any edits made will create file1.on1. You export that to a tiff to send to another program for some reason then back in Photo RAW you make more edits to the tiff file. Now you have file1.raw, file1.tiff, and file1.on1. The .on1 file holds the edits for both the raw and tiff files because they have the same name. The same thing happens if you add a Layer to create a new .onphoto file. It will have the same name as the original RAW file too so its edits are also stored in the same .on1 file. When you move files or rename them within Photo RAW it will make sure the .on1 & .xmp files get renamed the same as the associated image file. If in the example I laid out the tiff file or .onphoto file gets a name different than the original raw file or they get moved to a different location than the original raw file it should separate the edit info for that file and create a new .on1 file with the matching name.

    I was working with the engineers last month on lost edits. I've experience lost edits as well but it wasn't due to moving files around or renaming them. I noticed the lost edits after new releases that required updates to the internal database. I also lost a bunch of them after using the Reset ON1 Photo RAW command and the program rebuilt my internal edits database from the .on1 files. I was given an update to test a few weeks ago and I haven't had any more problems since then. This fix should be in the next release, hopefully it has solved the problem.

    I can also say that when I've lost edits they are not always permanently gone. You can look in a .on1 file with a text editor to see if they are there or not. You'll see metadata at the beginning of the file in plain ASCII text followed by what looks like gibberish. That is the binary editing data being interpreted as if it was text which it isn't so we see gibberish. If that gibberish is in the file the edits are too and the standard practice for recovering them is to move the file (using Photo RAW's Browser so all associated .on1 & .xmp sidecars are moved with it) to a new directory. This forces the program to reread the .on1 file so the internal edits database can be updated and you'll see them again. After that the file can be moved back to its original location with the edits intact.

    In other cases the edits truly are gone and only a backup of the .on1 file that contains the edits will allow them to be recovered. I haven't been able to identify a cause for why the edits were stripped other than the migration process that sometimes comes with a new release. Again, hopefully, the bug the engineers found and fixed in the update I was given to test will fix the problem permanently for us. All we can do is wait to see what happens.

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  • Steven Kurzrok

    I lost edits after moving a directory on the 2021 version and had been good until I tried to rename an entire folder. On this occasion,  knowing  from a backup that my edit files (.on1) were 10-15k immediately before the rename and seeing that the resulting .on1 files were now 800bytes suggested strongly that the file manager was the culprit. 

    Wont be using On1 to move/rename files for now and will be eagerly looking to the new release shortly. I will then  be doing  spot backups (in addition to my general backups) immediately prior to operations . Its more work, but I hate losing my work.

    Its interesting that no one it seems has made a third party file renamer (I looked) that will change the image file(s), and associated files .on1, .xmp,.onphoto. Its even harder , I suppose, because of the way On1 names virtual copies. And each developer (Adobe, DXo, On1 etc )has its own naming conventions. I would think it would be doable and there would be a market.

    The best practice however is always to rename before you have edits/changes. I usually did, but got lazy and paid for it.

    Steve

     

     

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  • Brian Lawson Community moderator

    A 3rd party renamer would have to be able to parse the .on1 file to separate the edits from different file types with the same name to do its job properly. ON1 hasn't released the format of the file although it is XML format. It's the binary sections that pose the problems in interpreting them.

    I think you may be jumping to conclusions about the source of the problem. I move and rename files all the time and I don't loose edits from doing that. Is it possible that the edits were gone before the renaming but you didn't notice until after the renaming? This is what I suspect is happening when I find photos that have lost their edits. Looking at the modified dates I can see whatever happened took place some time between when I last edited the photo and when I noticed the edits were gone. I've never seen them disappear right before my face while working with a photo.

    As for the size of the .on1 file, if it contains edits for multiple file types with the same name, and you give different names to the differerent file types, the edit info for the files whose names changed will be stripped from the .on1 and placed into a new .on1 file that matches the new name for that file. For example, I start editing file1.crw and I return to the Browser to save them. Next I go back to the Editor add a new Layer and continue editing. When returning to the Browser a new file1.onphoto file is created and its edits are saved in the same file1.on1 sidecar. Now I Rename the .onphoto file only. That will strip out its edits from file1.on1 making it smaller, and place them in a new renamed.on1 sidecar. The same thing happens for the Virtual copies. Depending upon how you do your renaming the size of the .on1 file isn't always an accurate indicator of lost edits.

    Are you using Photo RAW's Backup feature? I run Time Machine which does hourly backups, a nightly full backup of all drives, and I use the Backup feature manually from time to time. When I lost all my edits after doing a Reset of the program which is what kicked off the extensive session with the engineers I was able to recover them from my last Photo RAW backup.

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  • Steven Kurzrok

    I really appreciate your taking the time! Thank you. I think the takeaway is that I need to be more scrupulous about backup. I do take time with processing my photos and hate losing the edits when it happens. Regardless of your/my backup strategy, we need to do it so that precious data is not lost, or if lost can be easily recovered.

    Hopefully the data loss will be mitigated or eliminated with the next release

    Thanks again for your time and rapid response to the posts

    Steve

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