Something which has been bothering me for a while, so thought I'd get some answers here. When I first add new photos to my "holding" folder, I scan them for obvious discards. Then I do some preliminary development and discard any which don't show much potential.
Then get down to some serious editing on the rest - which sometimes includes sending some of them to Photoshop for the edits I prefer to do there. During this process, On1 sometimes jumps to the resize or print modules unbidden and makes a copy. When sending to PS, it likewise makes a copy. When I save from PS, ther'es another copy.
Sometimes when I'm done editing, it makes an .onphoto file - I've also seen .on1 files - but I think that was the precursor to .onphoto.
Anyhow, by the time I'm done with the batch, the folder is a mess of copies. So I'm asking for hints on a good method of keeping things tidy. I need to keep originals as well as edited versions, but would like to delete any unnecessary files.
I understand that the .onphoto files are sidecar files - should not every file I work on have such a sidecar file? I experimented by deleting the original raw file - the .onphoto file remained and could be further edited. When I restored the raw file, as well as the .xmp file from the recycle bin, it never showed up back in the folder, but the .onphoto file seems to be quite happy without it.
Could somone please explain what is going on? :)
.Onphoto is not a sidecar. When you add layers in Photo Raw and later save that work or a new file needs to be created for HDR or stacking, it's saved in the .onphoto file.
.on1 and .xmp are the sidecars.
- .on1 holds your work if you didn't need an .onphoto. When you export, the work in that file gets merged with your original photo to create the final edited photo.
- .xmp holds metadata for compatibility with other programs.
Many times you will get a new file after sending a photo to another program because the changes it makes can't be saved to the original RAW so it has to save those changes somewhere else. That's what results in a new file.0
I have never had random jumps to Resize or Print, what exactly were you doing at the time?
In basic editing of a file in PhotoRAW the original file remains untouched and details of all the changes are recorded in PhotoRAW's database, in the Files section of the PhotoRAW preferences there is an option to have these changes recorded in a .on1 sidecar file. This acts as a backup to database and also means if original file and its .on1 sidecar file are sent to someone else with PhotoRAW they can carry on with the editing.
For more complex edits that involve layers, including calling another program as plug in a new .onphoto file is created alongside the original file, and any .on1 file associated with this. This is On1s equivalent of Photoshop's PSD files that contain layers. This file gets created when you click done on Edit.
Since other programs can't read On1's edit information when sending to an external program either via Send To or as a Plugin PhotoRAW has to render the image with all the edits applied. If a plugin is being called then this rendered image is passed behind the scenes and does not create a new file, or not until .onphoto file is created as above.
For external editors the rendered image has to be passed as a file that the external editor can read, so a new copy file has to be created. In the Files section of Preferences one can specify which type of file is created for all such transfers or set it to prompt for the type when transfers are requested.
Unlike Lightroom PhotoRAW also gives option to transfer the original file without any PhotoRAW edits.
What happens at the end of the processing in the external editor is really down to the external editor, the type of file passed and how editing is terminated. For example Photoshop is able to save a new version of a PSD file if that is what PhotoRAW has sent to it automatically if edit window is closed, so only the one PSD file exists. On the other hand if a TIFF has been passed then various save dialogues come up and it is possible to then save as TIFF overwriting the original file.
To sum up
- there is the original file that you have brought into PhotoRAW
- depending on Preferences you may get a .on1 sidecar file for photos you have edited or changed metadata on, also if you have changed metadata you may get a .xmp side car file. First holds information that only On1 products understand and latter standard meta data information for interchange between programs
- if you add layers during editing in PhotoRAW a .onphoto file is created when editing of that image is finished. From then on this is the file that you should chose if you want to continue editing in PhotoRAW or send to external editor. This lives besides the original RAW file.
- if you send to an external editor such as Photoshop you have the option to either send the original unedited file or one that includes any PhotoRAW edits. In the second case you can choose which format to send to the external editor
- if the original file is sent then the external editor will need to create its own new file that contains the work that was carried out in it. Type will depend on decisions made in external editor, nothing to do with PhotoRAW
- if a rendered file is sent then the external editor will also need to create a new file or version of the file to contain its work. There may be options to overwrite the file that PhotoRAW sent but again that is down to the external editor and the type of file involved
If I am using Photoshop then I normally send a PSD file over and overwrite that at the end of the editing, so I normally only see the original file and the PSD file in PhotoRAW, and sometimes .onphoto files, and do my file management in PhotoRAW so side car files get handled behind the scenes.0
Thanks so much for the detailed responses - this will allow me to work more efficiently - for one, I'll make a subfolder for all the copies so that when I'm finished with a batch, I won't get the keeper files mixed up with the discards. Secondly, I'll do my tidying up in On1, not explorer, so I won't get to see the .on1 and .xmp files.
@David Till - this random switching of modes is another of those very annoying things about On1 which make me pull my hair out! This usually happens when I pull down on the slider next to the printer etc, icons. At first I thought I was being sloppy, but this is not the case. I don't even click - simply moving the mouse indicator in the near vicinity of the icons is enough to trigger the switch. Yesterday this happened when I adjusted the saturation slider - which is a long way from the print and resize icons.
Such a pity about these annoying actions - the best software for editing I have come across, to be marred by instability. Unfortunately, about the only solution that can be offered by Technical is to delete preferences - pretty pointless advice.
Thanks once again for your assistance:)0
Actually, deleting the settings file fixes a lot of things. Unfortunately, that doesn't say much for that file causing so many problems.
As for your random switching, honestly, you're the only one that's ever mentioned it to my knowledge. I'm more likely to suspect your PC sending erroneous keycodes that are activating certain modules.
So here is a suggestion, see if any of those modules have a hotkey assigned to them. If so, change the keycode temporarily. If the random changes stop, then that's what's happening.0
Roy, I have just tried to "accidentally" switch modes. Everything I tried actually need a new click, just running off sliders with mouse button down didn't enter the new mode.
I am on a Mac and tried with mouse, trackpad and Wacom tablet.
What I did find is that the clickable area for the mode change is more than just the icon. Clicking anywhere to right of scroll bar on level of icon is enough. But again it needed a new click to actually trigger the mode change.
Both Print and Resize have hotkeys, cmd-P for Print and Y for Resize. Probably difficult to accidentally trigger Print but a sensitive keyboard might trigger a Y if fingers resting on keys while using mouse.
I have been using On1 for several years, back to PhotoRAW 2019, and have never had an unexpected change of mode. And as Rick says you are the first person to ever mention the problem on the forums.
What system are you running? On1 uses a third-party package to handle its user interface, and other packages also use the same package, Topaz does/did for one. I have avoided Windows since I retired but back in the bad old days if applications used different versions of support software then they could interact in a nasty way. I have no idea if this problem still exists but some other application interfering with On1 is the best thing I can think of as being behind your problems if it is a software cause.
Have you tried with another mouse? Could this be generating unexpected clicks? As I found clicking when near the icons does trigger the change of mode but with my mouse it requires a real click.0
Roy, I am on Windows and, like the others here have said, I have never had a random switch of modes. I agree with David Tillett, perhaps try another mouse.0
Perhaps Roy has done what I have done occasionally by inadvertently clicking on the Resize etc. icons when trying to click on the scroll bar, on my 21” screen the scroll bars are only 2mm wide.0
Thanks for all the useful comments:)
On planning my reply, I tried my best to re-create the fault - to no avail. Dragged the mouse pointer all over the icons and they never changed modes - even had to click a few times before they would respond. Seeing as this appears to be not a known issue, when it happens again I'll put in a fault report with log file and see whether Tech can come up with something better than "update the drivers and/or delete the preference file" :)
I'm on Windows 11, using a wireless mouse, if that is at all relevant. If this happens again, I'll try using a usb mouse or the trackpad - which I hate with a passion!0
I just downloaded 2023 and it is NOT making the onphoto files. I've had this problem with other versions, but they were eventually fixed. I have various layers created and hit done. No onphoto file created. If I export my photos, the edits are lost. I have emptied my cache and restarted the pc. Still no onphoto file created. Help please!0
If you are not exporting the .onphoto file you will not see the edits because they are in the .onphoto file.
Are you a Mac or Windows user?
On the Mac you can press Command-Shift-3 and a jpeg will be placed on your Desktop with the name Screen Shot <date & time stamp>. Just drag it into the window you're typing in to add it to the message.
Instructions for Windows systems are at https://www.wikihow.com/Take-a-Screenshot-in-Microsoft-Windows#Taking-a-Full-Screen-Screenshot-on-Windows-8-and-10
I'd like to see a screenshot of the Edit window when you are ready to click the Done button and another of the Browser window after please.0
As you can see, the end result is there, but no layers. No onphoto file for this image.0
Can you you show that in Thumbnail View please? I want to see if you might have some kind of filtering going on and what your sort order is. A view with a limited set of images visible isn’t enough to tell me if it is there or not.0
Thanks Sandra. I don't know what is going on. I've never seen this happen. You're going to have to work with tech support on it.0
What am I missing in this thread? The screenshot 5 posts back doesn't have any layers and shouldn't make an onphoto file. Is that supposed to be the image in Edit before hitting DONE as requested?0
I'm a bit confused too - looking at the the last image of the directory there are 5 .onphoto files and the corresponding original file is not there for any of them???0
Rick, that shot is the finished photo containing all layers. When I hit done, that's what I was left with. ALL my layers were gone.0
David, that's the problem. Before 2023, the program created .onphoto files and I have all my layers to work with. AFTER 2023, there are no layers. When I click done, all the layers are gone.0
Definitely an odd one. If you are creating layers, there should definitely be a .onphoto file created when you click Done. I just verified it works properly for me in PR 2023. So it is not a behavioural change in 2023.
I don't think anyone here is going to be able to help you. I would click Help | Provide feedback from within PR and log it with ON1 under "Technical Support" for the field "What can we help you with?"0
Rick, that shot is the finished photo containing all layers. When I hit done, that's what I was left with. ALL my layers were gone. This is why I asked for a screen shot from BEFORE you clicked on Done.
I agree with Chris. You need to be working with tech support on this. I am able to create layered .onphoto files as well. This isn't happening because of a change in the program.0
Sandra, my point about "there are 5 .onphoto files and the corresponding original file is not there for any of them" -- when ever a .onphoto file is created that .onphoto file, if your structure is sorted by filename, should be visible right next to the original. You will see two examples in my screen capture below. I have never seen a .onphoto file not in the same directory as the original unless of course you have manually moved the .onphoto to that directory without pulling the original along with it.0
David, once I am finished editing in on1, I delete the original file. That's why there are no files next to the on1 photo files.0
Wow. There goes 'Non-Destructive' out the window!0
Update: I was sent an email about an update to 2023. I tried to install it, but it refused to install. I had to reinstall the original 2023. AND it now makes .onphoto files. Happy camper here. Thank you all for the help.
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