Not ready for prime time!
I have tried using Photo Raw 2023 for the last 4 hours and the problems are to many to count. Adaptive Presets looked to work with Raw, but not jpg. If photo has number of people in it (like 5) it will show the people blue, but one or two are missing in view of adjustment. The selection are not good at all in many photos I have tried. Sky selection does not work if you have trees with sky showing through the limbs. In my using use software on many different photos, it was not ready to be released. The ideas are very good, but the usably is not there. If all these items work on Macs I don't know, but on Windows 10 PC it needs work.
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I feel the same. This release feels like an early beta test version (maybe even an alpha) to me. I think, It should not have been released in this state.
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I Agree, this was the last time i did purchase Photo Raw in a pre-sale early september. next time i'll wait to see if the software works before a purchase.
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I really don't want to be negative but I agree this software was not ready for release. This is another October case of the hyped-up VP of Product Dan Harlacher promising pie in the sky with all kinds of bells and whistles in this release but with issues in a majority of cases from want I have seen in these posts. I get the black screen of death with AI noise and tack sharp I did not go any further. It's disappointing I expect some bugs but this is ridiculous.
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You do realize that ON1 is a very small company and therefore has a very limited amount of hardware to test with. They do release betas to some users for testing but again, it's a small set so limited in hardware reach. And, they did say right in the Release Notes that there were problems with some NVIDIA cards. They just didn't realize how much bigger the problem is.
Yes, it sucks to pay money for something then not be able to use it. It also sucks to keep waiting and waiting and waiting for them to release the promised new version. Look at how many people were clamoring for it starting October 1st! I would have liked to see them do more testing too.
You can believe that they are not any happier about this than their affected users and they will get it fixed as soon as they can. At least the parts they have control over. There's noting they can do about video card drivers that don't have the .dlls the new AI features are trying to use.
If you want to play on the cutting edge of technology, you've got to expect the possibility of getting cut. 😉
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It's crazy when I see a user write in a post "next time I'll wait to see if the software works before a purchase." This is no way to release software.
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Sorry, I feel the urge to comment - don't agree - and rant a bit.
"You do realize that ON1 is a very small company ..."
Yes, but it does not matter. They sold a product with advertized features and took the money. If they can't deliver to the promises then they should not make them or just don't release the product till it is ready. The size of the company is irrelevant.
"... has a very limited amount of hardware to test with"
if a company can't test their product they should either make agreements with external testers and, or run a public beta test. And, the RTX 20X0 variants of GPUs are the most widely used cards in the market. Even if I would have only one PC to test, it would be one with such a card.
"... they did say right in the Release Notes that there were problems with some NVIDIA cards ..."
Were the release notes already available during the pre-sales phase? I did not notice them. And even if they were there, ON1 should have mentioned the RTX 20X0 issue on the front page and not hidden in some FAQ area. And, as it seems it is not a problem with "some NVIDIA cards" but with the whole line of RTX 20X0 cards. And it was not mentioned in the specs. that 20X0 don't work.
"... there's nothing they can do about video card drivers"
Another no. I am buying from ON1 not from Nvidia. They sold me the product. If it does not work with specific GPUs they should clearly tell me in advance.
"If you want to play on the cutting edge of technology, you've got to expect the possibility of getting cut"
Yes, if I am developing myself or getting an offical alpha or beta software. But not if a company takes my money for a released product with promised features.
And all that was only about the GPU issue. Reading the posts here it seems even users with working cards are complaining about features not working as advertized and a lot of bugs.
Anyway, hope they can fix this soon as there is only a 30 days refund period.
I really liked the 2022.5 trial and was happy to buy in the 2023 version. But now I am downloading Luminar NEO to see how that works. I tried Skylum in the past, but at that time they had a release desaster like ON1 has now and Skylum was never able to get that software working in the end. I never wanted to use Skylum again but because of this ON1 release I do at least the trial.
Sorry for the ranting, but I am bit fed up with this "take the customers money, give them half ready, bugged stuff in exchange and let them do the beta testing, which actually should have been be our duty" situation.
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Downgrading graphics drivers to get 2023 features to work, I'm not doing that. It's ON1 responsibility to develop software that will work alongside current drivers. I just want the software to work as advertised. We should not have to downgrade. I guarantee that the computer being used for those hyped-up demos where everything worked perfectly was a MAC.
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This happens every year, and they do eventually work the bugs out. I got rid of all adobe products in 2017 and have been with ON1 since then. PR2018 and 2019 were a nightmare for me to say the least but ON1 support worked many of the problems out with me and I stayed with the software. The reasoning! I just loved it way more than lightroom and photoshop (when it was usable). PR2021 and 2022 were almost flawless on my machines, with PR2022.5 the best version I ever used. I only had issues with 2022.5 when I overworked the software with trying to do too many things too fast and it did crash a few times. Other than that 2022.5 was the first version I ever used that was basically 99% useable 99% of the time.
Being with ON1 since 2017 I should of known better to immediately download and install this new version 2023 due to every year before going through the same crap with bugs and glitches every year after year. But, in my opinion, when the software works it is the best and my favorite editing software.
The only other software I use is Topaz, and that is for high ISO shots and repairs/filters that ON1 can't do. Without ON1 working on my machine I am stuck in the mud as Topaz doesn't even come close to doing the workflow I am used to with ON1: hence why I reverted back to PR2022.
I feel your pain folks! Personally I would suggest to use 2022.5 until they work out these issues with 2023. If you don't have 2022.5 contact support and see if they will give you a download link for it, I'm sure with all the problems they are dealing with right now they just might oblige ya.
I think they goofed once again releasing this software too early, but it is what it is and they will do refunds if that's the choice you choose. In the meanwhile I'll use 2022.5 and wait for a few updates to happen with 2023 and try to install it again. I'm sure the ON1 team is working hard to correct things and get this right.
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Version 2023 obviously was not tested enough (at least for Windows folks). It does not matter what video card you are using, ON1 2023 crashes as soon as you try to edit a photo no matter the type of file - e.g. jpg, dng, cr2, cr3. I have an AMD Radeon video card. Glad I kept 2022.5 as I will have to use it until ON1 gets the bugs out.
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Hello Brian. Thanks for commenting. I appreciate your perspective. I do know exactly what it's like I worked for a small software company and as small as we were we tested our software before it was released to our customers as we had hundreds of clients depending on it to run their businesses. We all beta-tested just in case there were any show-stoppers. And our clients tested it for us. What is being reported in the user forums are show-stoppers in my opinion. There will always be bugs and things that do not work but I truly believe that if the beta testing reach went further some of these just don't work issues with many of the new features may have been avoided. I think the users would accept a later release to avoid disappointment and frustration. How many ON1 users have NVIDIA cards I suspect a great number based on the reports? There was a lot of hype and marketing around this release and all the new features.
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I ran the beta testing team for a 3D modeling software company so I understand where you're coming from. I didn't think it was quite ready but I don't get to make that decision. 😁
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My copy worked for a couple of days with a few bugs of course, and now it won't import photos and then all of a sudden just keeps locking up and freezing. I had a huge problem trying to uninstall/reinstall, it just won't even do that. I'm now downloading a new download to reinstall, hopefully that works.
If not I'm just going to do a clean install of the 2022 version and just use that until they work some of these issues out (like they always do).
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If your user data is corrupt (the database) reinstalling won't change anything. If you truly want a clean install follow this procedure.
1. Uninstall via the Add/Remove Programs
2. Remove the C:\Program Files\ON1\ON1 Photo RAW 202x directory
3. Remove the directories with "202x" in their names located in C:\ProgramData\ON1
4. Remove the directories with "202x" in their names located in C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\ON1
5. Remove this directory C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom\Modules\ON1 Photo RAW 202x.lrplugin
6. Remove this directory C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom\Modules\ON1 Resize 202x-suite.lrplugin
7. Remove the 202x files in this directory C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom\External Editor Presets
8. Remove the 202x files in this directory C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Plug-Ins\CC0 -
Thanks Brian, I knew to do most of that but you mentioned a couple I would of missed.
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There....back to the 2022 version. All things working again!
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If 2023 works with other Windows graphics cards, and apparently with some NVIDA drivers, perhaps it is more a case of NVIDA drivers not being ready for prime time?
As far as I am aware PhotoRAW uses calls to standard graphical APIs, either OpenGL or DirectX and has no special coding for any particular graphics card. So it sounds as though NVIDA have a big bug in their implementation of one or other of these standard APIs, and down to them to fix it. From what On1 said on a post on the Plus Forum 2023 makes use of additional graphics card functions that it didn't in 2022, looks like these are the ones that NVIDA have not implemented correctly.
Should On1 have held up the release of 2023 until NVIDA fixed the problem and all those with NVIDA cards had updated to the corrected drivers. While I have issues with the AI masking it is working very well for me on my Apple Silicon Mac.
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On Plus Forum people are reporting that they have got 2023 working by downgrading to older NVIDA driver 512.15 Game Ready.
To me that suggests that NVIDA introduced a bug in recent drivers and that is what had hit ON1, not a bug in their software. What seems to be coming to light with all the reports is the scale of cards that have drivers with these bugs. Unlikely that in testing ON1 have access to the full range of combinations of cards and drivers to test and list incompatible ones, probably only NVIDA can do this.
While there are problems with AI masking on some images 2023 is proving to be stable and perform well on my Mac, once it had settled down after re cataloging some folders.
Perhaps the rants should be directed at NVIDA saying bugs in their drivers are stopping me use software I have paid for and which works much more reliably on systems that don’t have your cards?0 -
I have seen Adaptive Presets work on raw photos not jpg. I have Luminar NEO and its mask AI works better not perfect but a lot better. It also looks like when you make selections the blue showing selection is good, but when it gets to the view in the function it is not the same. I have tried both gaming and studio drivers for GTX1060 no change. ON1 should send email to customers asking their system info and pick people to receive beta versions for testing. I'm a retired person who enjoys their camera and would like to help ON1 put down the best software possible. I know there is lots of other people out here willing to do the same. I for one have enjoyed ON1 products for years and would to see them be the best they can.
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I genuinely love ON1 software and happily (usually!) use their software all the time. But people complaining have very good reason. Even if it's nVidia's "fault", any drivers after the March release do not work with Raw 2023, certainly 20xx cards, but people are complaining of the same problem with a huge range of nVidia cards (saw someone saying this with a 1650 yesterday). It's as if they haven't checked it on a Windows/nVidia machine SINCE MARCH!
There isn't really any excuse for this, in my opinion. This is my third release since I 'found' ON1, and the Windows versions ALWAYS come with a truckload of bugs on release (and, yes, they do all get sorted out - eventually). I have a Macbook Air for mobile work, and that version always works much better on release (and again this time).
It needs more thinking. I'm sure I'm not their only user who's really rooting for ON1 overall. I like them, I love their stuff (eventually) and I would HAPPILY be a beta tester. And Windows machines, of course, are a lot more variable in their specs (but nVidia cards are surely the most popular?!). They need to get properly serious about beta testing for Windows machines. I'm sure there's a big enough dedicated user base who would very happily volunteer to beta test on Windows for them. They surely then would have seen this coming months ago - and they wouldn't have hacked off a lot of people attracted to their software who may now be put off for life.
Come on ON1. Help us to help YOU. I volunteer!
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regarding the older versions i can only give one recommendation, keep the installation files of the older versions until you are sure that the newest version is bugfree. in case you can still install the version where you were happy with. and never buy the pre-sale, rather wait until everything works.
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Yes, I learned in 2018 to always keep every installation file! It's a practice that kept me using a decently working copy of PR over the years.
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Charles, the current drivers have bugs that prevent them from being used. How is that ON1's responsibility in any form or fashion? If you don't want to downgrade to something that works that's fine but you give up the right to continue complaining that the program doesn't work. You're blaming the wrong company for what is broken.
Marc, you can download the previous version installers from the Products page in your Account.
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In my case I have a i7 CPU, 16GB RAM, NVIDIA GTX 1050/4GB on Windows 11 and I don’t suffer any crashes but occasional glitches such as the Noise & Sharpening panel disappearing but that can be corrected by Cancel, Exit and restart.
I also moderate another forum where there are quite a few AI products where the major culprit is NVIDIA RTX20XX and 30XX issues even while using TensorFlow which is their preferred library for machine learning. Complexities occur because it is OpenSource that was originally developed by Google.
I find the 2023 release much more stable than 2022 last year and, although the Noise Reduction Sharpening has a long way to go, it is an exiting new release especially with the Adaptive Presets and the new AI Masking.
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I just checked the product pages again:
Still no hint of the 20x0 issues in a prominent space or the specs.:
They even write that the 20x0 cards have been tested.
Customers still have to find out about the GPU issue in the troubleshooting - who is reading the troubleshooting info when buying a software?
Info about a new driver version in troubleshooting: No hint that only the Gaming Driver is updated, not the Studio driver.
No hint there about a workaround with the old driver version (anyway, would only be a solution for those who don't need the current driver for other software).
I think, the communication could definitely be better. But, after reading a lot of posts I got the impression that all this is common for ON1. Seems so they always release bugged software and let the customer be their "free of charge" beta testers.
Anyway, I still like the concept of the software and there are 26 days left of the refund period. Maybe they can fix the most glaring show stoppers in that period.
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maybe you should also test the newer cards from AMD, like my RX6700XT. it is a very often sold card. The world is not only NVidia :)
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I agree, but unfortunately for me it is Nvidia only, because a lot of my 3d related software relies on cuda and optix acceleration.
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