Advice to upgrade Windows computer
I'm a pro landscape photographer presently using PR2023 on a Win10 PC. It works well but like previous versions of PR, I find it slow and want to upgrade to a new Win11 PC.
I presently run Win 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 6850K @ 3.6GHz, 32GB DDR4 RAM @ 1332MHz, ASUSTek X99-A II motherboard, 4Gb NVIDIA RTX2070, 1Tb SSD, and several internal and external HDDs (USB SATA). I still use 2 pro old NEC MultiSync LCD 3090WQXi 30" displays (2560 x 1600) with adaptors for DVI input.
I'm not a tech expert. but I understand that key ingredients are lot of RAM (I plan to go at least 64Gb) and fast SSD (I plan to go 2Tb).
Budget is around 4000 $US. Two new displays will come later and will be minimum 27" high resolution.
Any suggestion is welcome. Photo processing is my main use (no game, no 3D, no VR).
Your present system is more than enough to run Photo Raw. The SSD might help, but you don't need more than 32GB RAM unless you do a lot of layers.
I just did the same thing and built a new PC with all high-end parts. Photo Raw does run great and if you want to spend the money, go for it, but your current system is already more than enough.0
Thank you Rick. I understand it is more than the requirements, but it is very slow with my high-res photos (Nikon D850 and D800). I rarely use several layers, most of the time I use none.
By slow, I mean that it takes Browser 25 seconds before seeing the first photo of a folder with 600 photos, and it takes a couple of minutes before I can see all thumbnails. It takes 8 seconds to view a photo with proper resolution (at the FIT view) and 8 more seconds to see proper resolution when I click to enlarge at 100%. I never move to the next photo at such 100% view because it is too slow (I go back to FIT, move to next slide, click to enlarge 100%). I've been working with PhotoMechanics for years and its speed is almost instantaneous for large folders and 100% views.
When I brush fine details up to the highly detailed level (I often print 40"x60" for art galleries), it becomes so slow and unusable (the cursor moves several seconds after I made the move) that I sometimes must export a TIFF file and continue brushing on the TIFF file. All demos in ON1 files use approximative masks, never finely detailed masks.
I love PR and want to keep working with it. I've used other raw processors and PR is the one I prefer for several reasons (one of them being the top-quality technical support).
Rick, based on your experience with your newly built PC with all high-end parts, did PR improved significantly regarding speed?
Thanks a lot,
I have 100% the same issue and do not have the root cause analysis of why
or how to fix it
Please let me stay on this with you as it is very frustrating.
Im thinking there must be delay points or one of the processing stations is inadequate0
I’m thinking that folder of 600 photos is what is slowing it down. Do you use catalogs? That could speed things as the previews do not have to be regenerated. Every time you come to visit that folder. There is an article in the knowledge base on caches and catalogs that you might want to check out.0
Photo raw, when its not crahing, runs very nicely on the new PC, but I didn't build it just for Photo Raw. My previous PC was 14 years old, so, yes a significant improvement. You would see improvements with your proposed system as well. I'm just saying your current system should run Photo Raw fine but if you have the money, go for it.0
Things that improve the speed of Photo RAW - my experiance
- cataloging your photos
- have the software on one ssd and use a second one for scratch folder and browse cache
- have your photos on a third internal drive. this does not have to be a ssd but it helps
- invest in a good graphics card (eg RTX 3060) and take care that the card is used at it's full power by On1 PR0
I don't use catalogs. I have about 400,000 photos on 4 internal 4Tb HDD with 4 external HDD for local backups and 4 external HDD I back up every month and store at my daughter's home. I never figured out if/how to use catalogs with such a setup. This would potentially solve part of my problems (thanks Brian!).
A folder of 600 photos is not rare for me. My folders are classified by PLACE YYYY MM DD Sequence. When I come back from a photo trip in one location, I may end up with 2000 to 3000 photos of the same region or place. Same for one day of bird photography!
Rick, thanks for the info. My computer is about 6 years old, and I believe that in order to have a significant improvement, my new computer would need significant hardware boost. I always have about 10 windows and applications open simultaneously (because of the way I run my business).
So, advices about new hardware would help, if significant improvement is possible at about $4000.0
For $4000 you should be able to get pretty much anything you need. The most expensive part will be the GPU. As Volker suggests, you should get an RTX 3060 or better. For myself that was the best card that I could afford.
You should have no problem affording a quality MPB, i9, 64gig, M2 SSD boot drive, a decent gpu(3060+) and a 1000 watt p/s to run it all.0
... I forgot, you'll need a good cpu cooler as well.0
... important to remember that the gpu needs som decent vram. Mine has 12 gig. I'd recommend 8 minimum.0
Thanks Rick, these are good suggestions.
I'll start looking for such capabilities. I'll buy it early in the coming fiscal year, i.e. 2023.0
Yvan, just create a single Catalog for the top level photos folder on each driver. You'll have 4 Catalogs. This will speed things considerably (once they are built! It's going to take a while for that to happen. Do them one at a time.) as well as making it much easier to search your library for individual images.
In Preferences > System there is a slide to control the Cache Size. This is a cache the images in the most recently browsed folders. As you browse to different locations, that folder's contents get rendered and placed into the cache and older images are removed from it. This takes time, especially when you go to a folder holding 600 images! When you move back and forth between 2 large folders like that the program is spending a lot of time redoing those previews over and over again.
With Catalogs, the previews are generated once and placed into the PerfectBrowseCache permanently. Now as you navigate through your file system those previews do not have to be regenerated and your system will become more responsive. This is why it is a good idea to put the PBC and Scratch space on a fast SSD dedicated to just those functions. The drive gets accessed only when needed and does not have to share an I/O channel with anything else that might want to access data on other drives at the same time.
Here is the link to the Knowledge Base article I mentioned:
Catalogs and Caches - ON1 Photo RAW 2022 & ON1 PHOTO RAW 20210
Brian, this is VERY informative.
I looked at the size required for the PBC and I don't have enough space on my 2 SSD. My 1Tb Boot SSD has only 49Gb free and my second 156Gb SSD only 30Gb free.
In my second SSD, I have four On1 folders named "On1 Perfect Browse Cache" (8Gb), "On1 preset et al backup" (3Gb), "On1 Scratch Folder" (0Kb), and "PR2022 backups" (105Gb).
The latter one seems to be PR database backups (23 files .onbackup), can I erase all except the last one? This would give space for cataloguing at least one of my 4 HDD.0
Yvan, yes you can cull the backup files though I normally keep a couple just in case something wrong with latest.
I also do a regular restore since the PhotoRAW database adds links to browsed folders that contain images even if not my images, if these have been deleted when a restore takes place you have to clear off warnings. The regular restores keeps the number of warnings manageable and gives me confidence backups working as expected.
Cataloging the number of photos you have will take time but as Brian said it generates previews that get reused instead of always having to be rebuilt on access, so says time in long run.0
Ensure the following are set:
ON1 PHOTO RAW 2020 GPU Rendering: Black previews, Export Failures & More – ON1 Support (zendesk.com)
"OpenGL 3.3 and Later is Required" - How to Update Video Card Driver (Windows Only) - Photo RAW – ON1 Support (zendesk.com)
Both have made a real difference for me. 2023 is faster than 2022 so far.
Also my C drive (OS) and D drive (applicaiton) are two separate SSDs.0
I'll try your advice this week and see how it goes.
Thanks a lot0
Yvan, I run PR2023 on both a Windows-10 and a new Windows-11 computer (both the same brand and the W-11 machine has a faster processor) and I have timed various functions on both computers and have found virtually NO difference in speed. None. I'd save your money, sir.0
Hi Tom, indeed ! How much RAM in each machine, and what SSD do they have. These two components seem to have the most important impact on speed.0
Philippe, I have updated my Video Card Driver. No real difference so far.
I have pushed the slider to the right to its max for the GPU rendering, no difference.0
I have an Nvida card. Nvida you need to change the following setting for On1 Photo Raw 2023. I had to add it manually. Then set the cuda cores as shown below.
Check the Display GPU Activity Icon so that you can see if On1 is using the GPU
Once done, you can select the icon below and you should see On1 running when the application opened.0
I did what you suggested and here is what I discovered:
a) the "latest" NVIDIA driver was NOT the latest one (it was updated by CCleaner a few days ago... anyway I'll not review their licence). I installed the latest one from NVIDIA web site (they updated it a few days ago, version 522.30... so you could also upgrade yours as well).
b) In the Manage 3D settings window, it was still PR2020 !! (although I don't have this installed anymore). I added PR2023. I thought this would have been updated when updating PR... I was wrong.
Result: brushing is now more fluid and faster, and everything else is about twice faster!
Thank you so much!
Now, investing or not in a new computer in 2023 becomes only a business decision (cf. investment vs income tax).0
The installer does only that — it installs the program and nothing more. It does not configure your video card drivers or your OS Graphics settings. How could it do that for you? It would have to know about each and every GPU driver type and all their multitudinous versions. That isn't practical.
Good to hear you got things working again.0
Yvan, kind of unrelated but regarding CCleaner. Personally I would stay very very far away from it. It used to be good but not so much now. I think that is what you are saying you are going to do in your bullet point a) and wanted to reinforce that thought ;-)0
Your very welcome Yvan. I am glad it helped. Since On1 leverages the cards for performance, they should be more proactive in spelling out how to set them up. It could only increase customer satisfaction and reduce calls. I would follow David’s advice and REMOVE CCleaner now.0
Hi Brian, I agree with you, but I didn't think about this when updating... Thus, as suggested by Phillip, On1 could help with simple "reminders" about this for every update :)
David and Phillip: I'll remove CCleaner as this function was the only one I kept it for... and it doesn't work properly. Luckily, me licence expires in a few weeks, so I'll not renew.
Thank you all !0
On1 could help with simple "reminders" about this for every update :) Agreed and it wouldn't be that hard to do. Write to tech support and suggest it as way to lessen all the complaints that come out after every update/upgrade to the program.0
I'll do !0
I just sent one to the alpha testing team leaders too.0
Done on my side as well !0
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